Comment by notahacker
11 years ago
Really? I'd have thought it was a pretty uncontroversial claim that government agencies were funding anti-communist media organizations in the middle of the Cold War (when, let's face it, they were doing it quite openly in many instances). I wouldn't be at all surprised to they are doing something similar with moderate Islamic organizations and interfaith dialogue groups (not to mention many anodyne business ventures with roots in the Middle East) today.
But suggesting that censoring the anti-authoritarian playground that is Reddit or persuading Hacker Newsers of the virtues of the TSA are sufficiently high on their list of current national security priorities to dedicate manpower to in our current environment just seems... rather more of a stretch.
If they are attempting to astroturf these particular corners of the internet it's something of an understatement to say they're not very good at it.
You're thinking about to simplistically. The point wasn't always to alter the message, but to embolden and radicalize the target groups.
A reasonable communist might appeal to the people, you discredit them by making them more extreme. When the FBI and NYPD infiltrated the antiwar movement in the 60s, in many cases the agents were agent provocateurs, ultra-extreme "members" of these groups encouraging violence or other behaviors not in the interest of the group. The idea was to undermine and anti-war movement and identify the leaders and undermine them.
(Example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gainesville_Eight "Bill Lemmer, the Southern regional assistant coordinator of Vietnam Veterans Against the War, revealed himself as an undercover FBI operative in May 1972. Bill Lemmer had been thrown out of a 'fast'/protest by DCVC(VVAW) on the Capitol steps in Washington D.C. in January 1972 after advocating for violent, destructive actions on the Washington Monument." )
If there is a covert presence on internet fora, it would probably be in a similar light -- build trust among potentially influential adversaries by emboldening them, then cutting them down by hook or crook. The ultimate coup is to actually co-opt the radical agenda.
See, I believe that government agencies actually do this (best 9/11 conspiracy theory: some of the ridiculous "controlled demolition" claims were planted or encouraged to divert the instinctive conspiracy theorists from asking more damaging questions about response times)
But on Reddit? I don't think government agencies are needed to persuade Redditors to say and upvote things that don't look good in the media, or that the Reddit hivemind represents a perceived threat on a par with the antiwar, socialist or even civil rights movements in the 60s
How would something like the infamous "Loose Change" video be ginned up and popularized in 2015? Outlets like Reddit, influential Twitter people, etc.
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Eh, you'd be surprised. Reddit is locked down and largely mainstream now.
Here is why it's not a stretch:
The CIA and other TLAs have long contracted with PR firms for propaganda work. PR firms actively court this business.
PR firms now sell astroturfing-as-a-service. How likely is it that they haven't sold this service to their government clients?
The same goes for the whole consent-manufacturing industry.
> But suggesting that censoring the anti-authoritarian playground that is Reddit or persuading Hacker Newsers of the virtues of the TSA are sufficiently high on their list of current national security priorities to dedicate manpower to in our current environment just seems... rather more of a stretch.
> If they are attempting to astroturf these particular corners of the internet it's something of an understatement to say they're not very good at it.
This is where I have trouble buying into this being present on HN or reddit. For what purpose? What goal are they pursuing?
Surely the same goal as everywhere else? To shape the minds of people.
Nice try, CIA.
Damn it, cover blown! When startup enthusiasts start joining ISIS in droves it'll be all your fault :-)