Comment by BuildTheRobots
9 years ago
Yeah, that's a very good point. It was suggested by an acquaintance that I just throw a lit sparkler down the hole before entering, which _almost_ made sense -though if I ever do manage to find a pocket of CO then it's going to make one heck of a mess.... Davy Lamp time it is then -big flame == big trouble and time to leave.
I might have to start taking a household CO detector with me (the cheap ones now even have a PPM reading [1]) though I'm still wary of it giving a false sense of security and me then missing something else just as hazardous. Once again, Davy Lamp might be the solution to this -apparently the flame goes out when there's 17% oxygen or less, which is still life supporting.
[1] http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mudder-Carbon-Monoxide-Alarm-Detecto...
You know, if you're doing work, or going into enclosed spaces, you really should just get the best gas detector you can get your hands on. It's a lot better than dying.
I worked for a short time at an installation that refurbished small oil rigs. It's about the worst kind of modern work environment: lots of poisonous substances (eg. heavy oil/crude leftovers), welding in closed spaces, tight crawlspaces and the whole thing is a basically a set of Faraday cages, so both VHF and cell reception is pretty bad.
Basically when you opened up a tank, you'd first have someone lower down a high precession meter to sample it over 12 hours. If that looked good, you have at least two gas meters per team, and the team is in constant contact with someone outside (either by said crappy VHF, and/or supplemented with a rope - pull the rope every minute - sound the alarm if the signalling stops, and send in a rescue team. If you figure an excellent 5 minutes from alarm to the team is inside, that's 6 minutes without air).
Worst accident we had was due to faulty documentation: a rig had stopped over and done an undocumented paint job. A team was repainting that section, on the inside of an enclosed space (a shaft) while another team was doing hot work (welding and/or cutting) on the outside. The old paint on the inside had cadmium in it - the result was 5-7 people airlifted to the hospital with cyanide poisoning.
Brilliant anecdotes; thank you. I didn't realise quite how seriously it was taken (multiple samples over extended periods, etc) in industry. Cyanide poisoning sounds horrific.
For the record I sit at a desk all day poking at computers -it's just occasionally I and some friends have the urge to go exploring WW2 structures or old railway tunnels. If I were doing anything commercially or even if I were doing it more often then proper air monitoring would be essential. At the moment we're more than happy to eyeball something (or stand at the entrance and check for a breeze) and just decide "nope -not worth the risk".
I'm also hyper aware that actually, we don't really know what the heck we're doing (even though I spend a lot of time reading up on how similar has gone wrong for other people); so discretion has to be the better part of valour. If anyone reading this happens to be based middle of the UK, has a better idea what they're doing than I do and wouldn't mind me tagging along to learn some new things, then please please please, PM me :)
It so much more important to take this stuff seriously if you only do it occasionally and for fun/recreation! Suffocation is the least of your worries, both H2S and CO are poisonous. And you don't have a team standing by with with air tanks. So response time is likely to be closer to an hour, on the off chance that there's even anyone to call for help. Think about the kind of brain damage you're liable to suffer if you do survive such an ordeal.
A couple of gas meters (the reason to have two, in case it's no obvious, is to try and make sure at least one sounds an alarm in case of faulty equipment etc) - and an "active" monitor to someone outside (aka: a rope) is generally as good as you'll get. And a lot better than what most people do.
Don't become the next anecdote at a search and rescue seminar.
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