Comment by ajkjk
10 years ago
Hm? I feel like this still applies reasonably well to America.
For all of the radical lunacy in our politics, our government's actual actions remain fairly moderate. (Of course maybe that's because political gridlock prevents us from having time to enact radical policy.) And we still are leading the world in all sorts of things, like scientific progress and technological progress.
Moderate? Hardly.
- The war on drugs is utterly radical, as well ineffective and brutally oppressive.
- Assassinating people (including Americans) by Drone strikes, based on "meta data". No due process or oversight.
- Disregard for the Geneva Conventions (Bombings of hospitals and other civilian targets)
- Torture. Including public defense of torture.
- NSA. Privacy used to be an inalienable right.
- Military bases in 200+ countries.
The list goes on, but I think I've made my point. The US is only "moderate" for the most creative definitions of "moderate".
74 countries according to this article:
http://qz.com/374138/these-are-all-the-countries-where-the-u...
Point stands, nonetheless. That's a lot.
I appreciate the correction.
Don't forget considering universal healthcare to be an abomination.
Yeah, those things you quoted don't seem like counterexamples. Compare to: assassinations as regular political tools, enslavement of minorities, internment camps, genocide, religious warfare, an utter lack of rule of law, hereditary rule, ..
I think we're doing pretty well compared to civilizations of yore.
>> we still are leading the world in all sorts of things
Sure, the US is in a pretty nice spots on technological progress, agriculture and has a rather strong economy.
But I wouldn't say "we" (not everyone on HN is American!) are leading the world in all sort of things.
American democracy is far behind what happens in other countries (like Sweden), totally corrupted by the pressure of lobbying groups and a certain political microcosme. It's also hard to compare the levels of poverty of the US to most "advanced" European countries for instance... Let's not even talk about healthcare and education.
I would never quote Sweden as an example of democracy. It is bad case of "political correctness terror", if anything.
There's a difference between somewhere that is undemocratic, and somewhere with a democratic government you don't agree with.
You may be right about Sweden having a poorly democratic system, but the fact that you find the tone of the society to be problematic is not evidence of that.
> I would never quote Sweden as an example of democracy.
Yeah. It's a monarchy.
What exactly do you mean by "American democracy"? What do you mean by "democracy" to begin with? On what basis do you compare "American democracy" to "Swedish democracy"?
I interpreted that part as being relevant given some of the statements from the Presidential nomination process going on today. That said, this point in the nomination process is not very indicative of where things end up.
Potentially more directly related is that there was some wholesale imprisonment that occurred in America a few years after Russell wrote that:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_America...
Most of what the US is leading the world is in how much military we have and how much we incarcerate. Technological improvements, health improvements, life expectancy, etc. are no longer US led.
Most of what the US is leading the world is in how much military we have and how much we incarcerate. Technological improvements, health improvements, life expectancy, etc. are no longer US led.