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Comment by dredmorbius

9 years ago

Compromised health tends to make effective responses to hazardous environmental conditions more difficult.

Heart disease can affect strength, balance, coordination, mental function, and any number of other responses, much as a cold or flu or pnemonia can. You might care to review the recent video footage of a notable candidate visibly collapsing whilst being aided into a waiting van for transport, as a consequence of pnemonia. A condition more generally understood to affect the lungs than major skeletal muscles, but here clearly a contributing factor.

Think systemically, please. Especially if you're in tech.

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dredmorbius

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sbov  9 years ago

If he had heart disease, it would make him more prone to slipping on ice. But because he slipped on ice (which perfectly healthy people do all the fucking time), does not mean he had heart disease, or was even in any other of the hundreds of conditions (some of which might speak to his health, others which might not such as being distracted by something) that might have made him more prone to slipping on ice.

So basically you've wandered into an "intro to critical thinking" level fallacy, which is especially ironic considering your last two sentences.

  • dredmorbius  9 years ago

    I'm not arguing the fall is proof of heart disease. That's a misreading of my comment.

    Atkins is reported to have suffered cardiomyopathy -- a virally-induced form of heart disease -- by Dr. Stuart Trager, chairman of the Atkins Physicians Council:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/11/nyregion/just-what-killed-...

    I'm somewhat familar with the particulars of the story and debate over Atkins' perceived or claimed health or disease, and the disagreements over both arguments. I'm not taking a particular side.

    But (as I've just commented to another response to my parent remarks above): yes, sick, frail, diseased, elderly people are more prone to falls than those who are well, strong, healthly, and young. And those falls can be fatal.

    Hence: heart disease can be a contributing factor to slipping on ice (or the resultant injuries and outcome).

Cyph0n  9 years ago

> Think systemically, please. Especially if you're in tech.

Which is why I would follow Occam's Razor in this scenario instead of using a convoluted theory to explain why someone slipped on ice.

"Simple is better than complex." [1]

[1]: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0020/

  • dredmorbius  9 years ago

    I'm not claiming either that:

    1. The direct cause of Robert Atkins' fallin on ice was heart disease.

    2. That his falling on ice is proof of heart disease.

    Rather, I'm explaining how, as one of several precipitating factors, heart disease might be a factor in the question posed: "I don't get it: heart disease causes people to slip on ice?"

    I'm suggesting that a multifactor risk analysis be considered.

    It's the same multi-factor logic you might follow in answering questions of other disasters. Say: What caused the disaster of the RMS Titanic? What caused the Hindenberg disaster? What cause the Fukushima or Chernobyl disasters? What lead to the Bhopal disaster.

    Looking only at the precipitating or triggering cause misses many other opportunities for mitigation or avoidance. The Titanic would have been better served with more lifeboats, 24/7 manned radios, regular lifeboat drills, the originally-scheduled first officer not having (inadvertently) pocketed the key to the bridge's binoculars case, heeding ice warnings, less hubris on the part of passengers, owners, and regulatory boards.

    Old, sick people are more likely to slip and fall, and the hazards of such falls can be greater than for young, fit, healthy people.

    To amend to your Zen of Python list: make things as simple as possible, but no simpler.