Comment by jaredklewis
9 years ago
If places aren't dense enough to support mass transit, they are certainly not dense enough to financially support car-trains tunnels. The depicted tunnels have the same costs as building subways, and I imagine similar maintenance costs. On the other hand, they can only serve a fraction of the riders a traditional subway can, which means the cost per rider is huge. Not to mention it still requires owning a car, so the traditional capital and insurance savings from mass transit don't apply.
But to answer your question: maybe, but it doesn't matter. American cities are already bankrupting themselves in road maintenance. Adding a series of super car tunnels for an efficiency benefit? Out of the question.
Why does everyone lack imagination on this topic?
Problem: if you drive to the subway, then take the subway, then you have two problems: where do you park your car, and how do you get to your destination once you get off the subway if it's not walking distance?
Currently - people just drive. And the surface streets get progressively more crowded. We could drill more regular roadways - but it's notable that one reason we don't is controlling emissions and safety is difficult with human drivers.
So, taking that back to the video: replace the subway with general purpose transport stations that provide a mix of subway-like transport of passengers, or entire vehicles, powered electrically.
No vehicle emissions (huge problem with tunnels) and no endpoint transport issues - the subway becomes an extension of the road network, and if it's cheap enough to do, hopefully a very scalable one.
> We could drill more regular roadways - but it's notable that one reason we don't is controlling emissions and safety is difficult with human drivers.
Also cost. Drilling car tunnels is more expensive per passenger served than a mass transit system
> if it's cheap enough to do, hopefully a very scalable one
That's a big unproven if, and a hope that's almost out of a science fiction novel. If Musk has ideas about how to solve those problems, let's hear them.
We already understand that tunnels with electric cars would be great. Everything we do has a cost and if we're going to work together on something as a society, let's do something that benefits more of us than luxury car owners
> Why does everyone lack imagination on this topic?
You are right, I imagine that we should just have teleporting gates!
> if you drive to the subway
How about not driving to the subway? how about having local buses or that can take you there?
> where do you park your car
Car parks next to the station?
> how do you get to your destination once you get off the subway if it's not walking distance?
Buses or trams.
> Currently - people just drive.
Not everywhere, look at London for example.
> We could drill more regular roadways
No we can't, tunnels are expensive and bring a whole new set of problems like how do you handle an accident, how do you get to the surface etc.
> subway-like transport of passengers, or entire vehicles
That is horribly inefficient in terms of space and weight, average car weight is ~2 tons.
> powered electrically
Having it electrically powered does not mean that it's clean energy.
I understand those benefits, and think they are marvelous, but also very expensive.
American cities are already spending more than they can afford on road maintenance. Are these underground trains going to be cheaper than above ground roads? Public money for this doesn't seem all that likely.
Here in Tokyo, the Yamanote above ground train serves a million riders daily. Costs a couple dollars to go 10km. The boring concept looks much more expensive than that, as it is underground, but those costs are spread out over many fewer people. Private money seems hard, too.
The two problems you discuss are both easier to solve than LONG DISTANCE BORED TUNNELS.
Solution for problem 1: Park and Ride. Giant multi story parking lots. Cheaper to build even underground than the tunnel Solution for problem 2: Local transit like Tram, bus, or bikeshare.
I think a far better solution to #2 is taxis or other on-demand transportation that can take you directly from subway stops to your destination. Trams and buses have the same last-mile problem as subways, but to a lesser extent, and often require passengers to wait longer for the next tram/bus. Bicycles have practicality limitations such as luggage storage, cold weather, and physical ability.
This solves the last Mile problem
So does having train stations every few corners. The reason we don't have that now is cost, which is the same reason we won't have car-train tunnels.
Obviously having a network of underground express tunnels for cars would be amazing. It's just economic nonsense when municipal governments are racking up huge debts in normal, above ground road maintenance. If it's not publically subsidized, drivers will be exposed to the true cost, which will be enormous. That high cost cannot be supported will prevent mass adoption.
So do big parking garages at suburban train stations.