Comment by chr15
16 years ago
I would not lie on security clearance applications. Being honest and truthful is a big factor is the security clearance process. It's OK if you have incidences like this in the past, as long as there are mitigating factors such as passage of time and circumstances in which the incident occurred. The investigators just want to make sure you cannot be blackmailed in exchange for secret information.
For example, say John has a drug addiction, but he failed to disclose this on his application. He is eventually granted the clearance, but now he has to keep this secret for the rest of his life. Someone could easily blackmail him for secret government information. If he is caught lying, his clearance will be revoked and he will lose his job, and more than likely he will never be hired for a position that requires a clearance ever again (many US gov't jobs require a clearance).
Honesty is a sign of your loyalty to the U.S. Depending on the type of clearance, you are sometimes required to take multiple polygraph tests, and you will more than likely be caught lying.
Author did the right thing by being truthful.
See http://www.rjhresearch.com/ADR/index.htm for more information.
So at the airport to the 'have you left your bags unattended, has anyone given you anything to carry on'
Do you answer, yes - the bags have been unattended in the cupboard for most of the year, and on the incoming flight and my company gave me this laptop to carry on?
Incidentally if you fly El-Al they do ask you if you were given a new laptop for this trip and even if it has been out for repair since you knew you were taking this trip.
Why do people deal with security clearances and government jobs? The pay is better in the private sector, and fucking up won't land you in prison.
The market is clearly not efficient.
The job is more stable and there is less pressure to perform. You'll never be outsourced, and you'll never be passed over for promotion in favor of Raju or Yun. If the project doesn't move quickly enough, your dept will just get more money.
The government is a great place for mediocre people to work.
you summed up exceptionally well some of the reasons why I'm leaving. Having said that, gov't can allow you to work on some extremely interesting problems and data sets that you just won't find anywer else.
Still astounds me how you can have such an eclectic mix of brilliant and less than mediocre people working on the same projects. I guess that's everywhere though.
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But Raju and Yun are American citizens! (Seriously, I know them)
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Why do people join the military? The pay is better in the private sector, and fucking up won't get you shot or blown up.
Nowadays military IS private sector
Having a security clearance can be job security for the private sector, too (well, government contractors). I interned at a company that decided they needed to do a large round of layoffs. To my knowledge, nobody with a security clearance lost their job, even though it was a 'classified' project that was lost.
There are private sector jobs that require security clearance and pay well. Consider Lockheed Martin, Northrup Grumman, etc. Lockheed on GlassDoor: http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Lockheed-Martin-Salaries-E40...
But ones that don't pay almost $100,000 more:
http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Bank-of-America-Vice-Preside...
The top end of "Senior Developer" at Lockheed is around $100k. The top end for the same job at BofA (with an impressive-sounding but meaningless title) is $200k. And you don't have to lie about being investigated by the FBI. And if you get bored, you can just jump ship to their competitors across the street.
Dunno, but I'm not convinced that anyone should worry about security clearance unless they are completely unable to write even the simplest computer program.
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Lockheed pays well, but they are more pleased with themselves about being a large company than actually getting things done and innovating.
The link you provide suggests LM doesn't pay well at all. $50-100k for software engineer? $168k for "Systems Engineer Senior Staff"?
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You're conflating two very different things. Lots of people have security clearances and still work for private-sector companies (contractors). They just work on government contracts, sometimes in addition to traditional commercial work.
Other people work for the government directly, and most of these people (that I've known) also have security clearances, although there are some government jobs that probably don't require one. Why people work directly for the government I have no idea -- good pension plan, I guess? Doesn't appeal to me in the slightest.
But government contracting can be good work and good money IMO. There's more paperwork and overhead than straight commercial work, but you sometimes get to solve weird/unique problems too.
In some areas (DC) there is a big pay difference depending on what level of security clearance you have. Someone with TS/SCI can expect to make very good money, on top of whatever their experience and education would dictate, as a result of holding the clearance. This is because there are some projects which require people with those clearances, and for the highest clearances it's a relatively small pool of people (they're expensive).
However I'll agree with you on the market being inefficient. The labor market very rarely is, however. The natural tendency of people to not want to move around all the time ensures a certain amount of inefficiency, before you even involve the government.
Early-career research positions for cleared PhDs at gov't labs pay much, much more than the equivalent positions at universities (post-doc, lecturer, etc.) and still allow you to publish.
One very simple reason that one of my friends has been enjoying for some time: it allows you to continue your programming career past age 35-40. This part of the market, where they care if you already have a clearance and can do the job, but not your age, is much more efficient than the civilian US market.
And I'd be surprised if the pay is much better in the private sector for equivalent IT jobs; I've never heard any programmer with a clearance being upset with pay or not being able to live the lifestyle he liked (well, as long as it was average American suburban).
"Fucking up" is pretty easy to avoid; you can talk about the technology you're using (e.g. Suns/UNIX, .NET, Java (the CIA was a 100% Java shop in the middle of the last decade), just not about the domain. Which is often true in the civilian market, it's just that the penalties are higher.
Job security. Governments are more stable than big corporations, and are liable to have any cost-cutting initiatives neutered.
That, or wanting to live in the DC area. Some very large percentage of the jobs there are either government or government contractors.
You might be surprised what a clearance is worth over private sector pay.
That being said, private sector work is usually for more fulfilling and less frustrating.
Working a private sector job, with a clearance (and the pay bump that brings) making software for the government, now that's not a bad way to burn through a work week.
The pay is not better in the private sector for most jobs.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-03-04-federal-pay_N...
> Being honest and truthful is a big factor is the security clearance process.
I would say that knowing how to lie well is a big factor in the clearance process. Being too honest can hurt you as we read in the article.
> Honesty is a sign of your loyalty to US.
That is why one should appear to be honest if they want to appear to be loyal.
As far as polygraph tests -- they only work if those who administer convince you that they work.