Comment by jrimbault
9 years ago
Anarchists and communists have long been banned from entering the US. And I've noticed a strong push back against most of the more mild socialists ideas. The US have not been "the land of the free" for a long time.
And I will argue that communism is fundamentally a good ideology. While fascism has never leaned on the good side of human nature.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Control_Act_of_1954
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideological_restrictions_on_na...
PS: statues of Lenin and Stalin were removed without much second thought, only USians would keep statues of their (war criminals)|(rebels) for 150 years. And political bronzes are not art, they are at best political camping and grandiloquence.
The US dropped its blanket ban on anarchists and communists well over 20 years ago. I personally know people in both camps who have visited the UK and one who has permanent US residency.
I'd argue that while the US has many problems when it comes to its treatment of the left, things have moved in the opposite direction of what you indicate. E.g. the far rights attack on Obama coupled with generations now growing up who never experienced the cold war combined to make words like "socialism" far less scary.
> Anarchists and communists have long been banned from entering the US. And I've noticed a strong push back against most of the more mild socialists ideas. The US have not been "the land of the free" for a long time.
American citizens are perfectly free to hold those beliefs. They are also free to determine what kind of people they want to allow in their country, just like every other country on Earth can. That they choose not to allow people who openly advocate destroying all existing social institutions (which is the end goal of communism as stated by Marx in The Communist Manifesto) to enter the country does not mean that the country is not free.
> And I will argue that communism is fundamentally a good ideology. While fascism has never leaned on the good side of human nature.
There are 100 million people who died in the 20th century who would disagree with you.
But, even if we ignore that, the US does not allow Nazis to enter the country either, for very similar reasons. As a matter of fact, if you apply for permanent residency today, you still have to sign a statement that says you're not a member of the National Socialist German Workers Party or adhere to any of its beliefs, even though that party is defunct and most of its members are dead.
You seem to be rebutting a rebuttal without having read the grandparent comment. "What about the nazi ban?" is a non-sequitor in context.
Yes, I am rebutting the comment I replied to. Not every reply to every comment needs to assume the grandparent comment as necessary context; it's perfectly fine as far as I know to start tangents.
Also, the grandparent comment did not discuss immigration policy, so by your standard the parent is an irrelevant rebuttal.
>And I will argue that communism is fundamentally a good ideology.
This is a dangerous thing to say publicly! As you mention yourself, the United States has had red scares just a generation ago. Who is to say it won't happen again? And that is exactly why you should support freedom of speech and tolerance of differing ideologies. Or the next red scare will be even worse.
>statues of Lenin and Stalin were removed without much second thought, only USians would keep statues of their (war criminals)|(rebels) for 150 years.
As far as I know most of the USSR world war 2 monuments are still standinding. The US is removing even monuments to soldiers that don't feature any specific general or leader. By your logic we should tear down the famous Vietnam war memorial because the US lost the war.
>This is a dangerous thing to say publicly!
It doesn't cost me much, apart from internet points. And really the ideas of sharing, equal laws, global humanism and opposition to the centralization/concentration of capital genuinely seem good to me. And I'm not from the US, having those opinions seems quite mild to me.
But yeah, I've made several political comments on HN these past few years, and the amount of votes (in both directions) seem to vary wildly according to what countries are awake, generally more downvotes when the US are awake.
You missed my point. I was saying that if a red scare happens again, you could be persecuted for having written that comment. I admit it's a bit implausible. But not completely so, when you consider US history and the declining respect for freedom of expression.
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> By your logic we should tear down the famous Vietnam war memorial because the US lost the war
Nonsense, the statues are not being removed because they are from the losing side, they are being removed because they commemorate terrorists and traitors, and were in many causes erected by racists later on.
They commemorate soldiers who died in the largest war in American history, and were mostly funded by veterans.
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To be fair, anarchists didn't exactly make anyone their friends from the late 1800s forward. There was an incredible amount of political violence at the time.
Russia saw tens of millions murdered because the anarchists and communists (of that day) got exactly what they wanted in the overthrow of the old regime. It's weird how communism and fascism seem to appear out of the ether together and fight with each other.
How many states were destabilized by that combo in the last 100 years? Russia, Germany, Spain, at least, South American countries, etc. Fascists and communists are like pb & j.
There must have been a lot of normal people who just wanted to live normal lives but saw them destroyed by extremists who knew the right way to live.
The anarchists in Russia, and a substantial proportion of the communists fought against the Bolshevik coup, and most of them ended up murdered or in exile for it. Or both.
Trying to paint them all with one brush is ignorant.
Well yeah, but they made a deal with the devil.
The anarchists in Russia were murdering thousands of people a year from 1904 forward. They killed one of the few liberalish emperors in 1881. Russia could have been a very different place in 1915 without their action.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narodnaya_Volya
Here's a long list of the infamous actions of the anarchists:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_of_the_deed#Notable...
The sailors on Kronstadt who supported Lenin during the July Days and were one of his strongest bases of support ended up getting put down and executed when they rebelled after the revolution.
Guess it suggests that making friends with violent people is a bad idea, regardless of convenience or agreement.
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