Comment by chimprich
9 years ago
> Not all natzis are violent or are looking for violence [...] Up to this point Hitler was an incredible leader
Hitler was openly advocating persecution of Jews and annexing countries through war. Supporting Hitler at the time, even without hindsight, was to be in active support of violence to say the least.
Normally you don't need to point out the link between Nazism and violence, but these don't seem to be normal times.
>Hitler was openly advocating persecution of Jews and annexing countries through war.
The US (and France and co) were quite antisemitic at the time as well. Hitler took that sentiment and run with it to unprecedented murdering levels, but it was there (and of course, when it was millions of developing worlds colonial slaves who got the axe, nobody really cared. Heck, people didn't even care that much for Jews at the time either: https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005267 ).
As for "annexing countries through war" the European colonial powers had been doing exactly the same to 2/3 of the world for centuries (and continued to do so after WWII).
The difference is that Hitler did that "annexing" to other European countries, not to third world people (for whom hypocritical Europeans could not care less).
(Of course European countries have also had a long bloody history of fighting and annexing each other for centuries up to WWI as well).
> As for "annexing countries through war" the European colonial powers had been doing exactly the same to 2/3 of the world for centuries (and continued to do so after WWII).
How is this relevant? Get back to me when people proudly call themselves neo-colonialists, and I will gladly call them idiots. No one is defending that part of British history (for example).
>No one is defending that part of British history (for example)
You'd be surprised. I recall the British being quite fond of their Falklands war -- for an astonishingly remote land that has absolutely no historical connection to the isle and population of Britain apart from the colonial plundering.
Plus, it's not like the big powers are not invading and bombing countries here and there to this day under various pretexts...
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As a rhetorical lesson, notice how easily whataboutism can be turned in service of Nazism.
For the parent, I would prefer that you argue the merits of national socialism on their own terms. It makes it easier to see where you stand.
>As a rhetorical lesson, notice how easily whataboutism can be turned in service of Nazism.
I don't consider "whataboutism" an offense -- rather it's what people used to call "calling a spade a spade" and not siding with pots in calling the kettle black, but rather pointing the finger and both the pot and the kettle.
(Of course I don't belong to either the pot or the kettle. I can understand why compatriots of one or the other would take offense at "whataboutism". They'd rather only the other is called out).
I also don't particularly see how if reality proves that both sides in WWII were bastards, or that the best between them dropped nukes on civilians with the same ease the Nazis murdered Jews (but just for 200.000 people, not 4 million) that's "in service of Nazism".
Rather it's in service of the truth those other victims ALSO deserve.
I wouldn't be satisfied if we just didn't repeat Nazism.
I also want us to not repeat imperialism and colonialism [1].
For that, call all out all sides is necessary.
(Well, we never stopped those, but in any case).
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