Isn't this just a natural evolution following the fact that we're optimizing how to make money instead of optimizing how to make ... "good"? As long as we fight over the resources we want and need we're going to have technology applied by people in ways to optimize their own share. In a global market with little regulation, ethics very quickly gets thrown aside unless that said ethics is important to the consumers. Since in this case it's even difficult to see the ethical problem, how can it be improved without changing the first principle of operation (I.e. that we optimize making money I.e. our own share of resources.)?
Most people's internal reward system values survival > profit/utility > morals/ethics. Not all, but most.
Sometimes, like you said, those ethical or moral considerations are so far abstractes from what's on your plate that we don't even think about it.
I think we need a better system than simply further centralizing powers around the globe. I mean, just look at how rotten NASA became, burning up a space shuttle and failing to innovate or become more efficient because of a groupthink culture designed to protect leadership. And these were people who ostensibly are relatively good--they could have easily made more money more easily elsewhere.
We need competition. Not leaders and bureaucracies who cherrry pick winners. We need real competition to keep us honest. That's the best thing for humanity if you 'care about other people.'
Even optimization for "good" is problematic. I'm fairly sure that you and I would have a long and loud argument over what "good" means if we really got down to brass tacks.
Btw, speaking of algorithms, this post was at top 40 on https://news.ycombinator.com when my comment was added. Is that a global state or a personal state configured just for me? :-) (hoping for the former)
> we're optimizing how to make money instead of optimizing how to make ... "good"?
swhat you say is true, but money that is not backed up with goods or something of value is of little use. They can go past each other for a while but things soon catch up.
To see some of what Facebook knows about you. They know a lot more than that - all the stuff they collect implicitly. Entered a search term but never clicked go? They know it. Looked at a page without clicking Like? They know that too. If you have the app they know when you walked past a billboard of someone they showed you and ad for... None of that you can see there
Apple, Google, Amazon and Facebook are just tools of the gigantic consumption machine that has built up over the last 30-40 years. They enable new levels of mindless consumption and do it at speed that no one has ever imagined before.
Isn't this just a natural evolution following the fact that we're optimizing how to make money instead of optimizing how to make ... "good"? As long as we fight over the resources we want and need we're going to have technology applied by people in ways to optimize their own share. In a global market with little regulation, ethics very quickly gets thrown aside unless that said ethics is important to the consumers. Since in this case it's even difficult to see the ethical problem, how can it be improved without changing the first principle of operation (I.e. that we optimize making money I.e. our own share of resources.)?
Most people's internal reward system values survival > profit/utility > morals/ethics. Not all, but most.
Sometimes, like you said, those ethical or moral considerations are so far abstractes from what's on your plate that we don't even think about it.
I think we need a better system than simply further centralizing powers around the globe. I mean, just look at how rotten NASA became, burning up a space shuttle and failing to innovate or become more efficient because of a groupthink culture designed to protect leadership. And these were people who ostensibly are relatively good--they could have easily made more money more easily elsewhere.
We need competition. Not leaders and bureaucracies who cherrry pick winners. We need real competition to keep us honest. That's the best thing for humanity if you 'care about other people.'
Even optimization for "good" is problematic. I'm fairly sure that you and I would have a long and loud argument over what "good" means if we really got down to brass tacks.
Btw, speaking of algorithms, this post was at top 40 on https://news.ycombinator.com when my comment was added. Is that a global state or a personal state configured just for me? :-) (hoping for the former)
It is a global state. Random strangers from around the world are now reading your comment.
It's global. Hacker News doesn't personalise.
2 replies →
> we're optimizing how to make money instead of optimizing how to make ... "good"?
swhat you say is true, but money that is not backed up with goods or something of value is of little use. They can go past each other for a while but things soon catch up.
Open your Facebook. Go to Settings > Account Settings > Ads to see what Facebook knows about you.
to see what Facebook knows about you
To see some of what Facebook knows about you. They know a lot more than that - all the stuff they collect implicitly. Entered a search term but never clicked go? They know it. Looked at a page without clicking Like? They know that too. If you have the app they know when you walked past a billboard of someone they showed you and ad for... None of that you can see there
Apple, Google, Amazon and Facebook are just tools of the gigantic consumption machine that has built up over the last 30-40 years. They enable new levels of mindless consumption and do it at speed that no one has ever imagined before.
To address it society has to address consumption.