Comment by F00Fbug
8 years ago
It's about time.
I can't imagine (as the author asserts) that people left Windows for Apple because of the lack of a command ssh client. Here's a thought: If you need to spend time on Unix/Linux machines, why not just run that on the desktop? I've been Linux only for 10 years and have no issues. OK, I do need Windows for the rare moments where I have to collaborate on Word or PowerPoint documents; Win in a VM (KVM/QEMU) gets the job done.
Does this new client support ssh-copy-id and passwordless logins? I have a couple of public-facing machines that need ssh; I refuse to enable password authentication as they'll get banged on all day!
Because Windows is foisted upon people in corporate environments. Not everyone gets to run their OS of choice.
Good point - as Mel Brooks said, "It's good to be the king!" In my last job, I was IT; I dread going to some place where they force Windows upon me!
I work at a very corporate place with forced windows laptops. There are zero systems in the company we can sit down at and log into, except our laptops. The OS version is updated, and upgraded, automatically, even including major versions. I was just force upgraded to windows 10 and lost support for my programming environment. I had to recreate it in a new toolset because the one I have a thousand hours in is no longer supported. (It would work, it's just not supported - I cannot install it, but it would work fine if I could).
One arm of my company allows macs. This one does not, period. We have a 0% non windows 10 user base. We can have temporary admin access for 12 hours if we will out a report, but everything we do is recorded. It doesnt work if we're on wifi or battery. We are not allowed to install browser extensions, even if we are developing against the web.
My last job let everyone have admin/root. I had everything I ever wanted. My workflow was glorious. I was so comfortable. I was able to work 3 to 4 times faster on average, i.e. my yearly output was probably 3 to 4 times more productive. I invented new things, scratched my itches, and felt like the king of the world.
But this job will let me retire.
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It was foisted on me, but I created a group in our approved software policy with just me in it, added Virtualbox to the group and managed to get the change request signed off! I use Ubuntu now for everything but MS Office and the dreaded ERP client.
good lord. I would've gone the hyper-v route, that comes with Windows 10 pro, doesn't it? (another linux only user here, so idk). Should perform better than Virtualbox too
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Obviously somebody in those corporations chose it.
Running a large fleet of non-Windows computers means writing your own software to manage them, just like Google had to do [0]. Not every business wants to do that.
[0] https://9to5mac.com/2013/11/27/how-google-manages-over-40000...
Assuming a Linux fleet you can use config management tools just as easily for desktops as servers.
Part of this though is because software was historically built for windows in a way that it isn't anymore. Even at tech companies, where the majority of employees are using macbooks, you'll often see people in the finance department using windows machines.
I imagine as the growth of SaaS continues we will see less of this, especially because it's much easier for the IT department to manage one type of computer where macs tend to have a higher build quality than most windows based machines.
I'm working now to move my Win 8 install to a VM then I can format this damn machine an install a real OS. All I need Windows for really is Skype and MS Teams.
Foisted is a very apt term
Because on OS X you can run Office and Outlook and many other commercial apps without VM?
Os X is Unix on the desktop
If only Office on macOS actually worked as well as its Windows counterpart
I've been using it since the latest version was made available, and early on it crashed from time to time, but I haven't noticed problems for more than a year.
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That sounds like a minus to me.
Well in most large corp. environments outlook is a thing so if you have no choice but to use it I'd rather use it from OS X.
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I know lots of developers who use a Mac specifically because it is a Unix system with normal Unix tools that can also run lots of commercial desktop software.
> I can't imagine (as the author asserts) that people left Windows for Apple because of the lack of a command ssh client. Here's a thought: If you need to spend time on Unix/Linux machines, why not just run that on the desktop? I've been Linux only for 10 years and have no issues.
What's your point? Apple Macs are Unix, and in fact certifiably UNIX®: https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/
I find it really convenient to run the same OS on my laptop, as on the servers I administrate.
Others probably feel the same, and I suspect that was the GP's point as well. :)
Also, almost nobody care about Unix certification. Linux isn't certified, and except for really niche things, Linux is all that matters (if you aren't running Windows).
I think their point is that there's no point in trying to force Windows to behave like a Unix when you can just use a Mac or install/dualboot Linux. There are a lot of reasons (fascism-based IT department, can't afford a Mac, etc.), but it's a good point. Once I stopped trying to trick Windows into working like Linux and just freaking installed Linux, my workflow became SUPER smooth.
Usually people who work for Corp or Government can't choose the OS their organisation supports. You can be actually happy if your windows is as modern and free that you can install something like git-bash on there (and then of course you work on a Linux VM that is hosted somewhere in the office, or AWS or similar)
I’m going to try this out, but if you’re using Windows 10, you can install WSL, which has all of the normal SSH commands, and definitely supports using keys for SSH.
I quit using Windows as my primary desktop because of lack of SSH support.
Was there a problem installing Putty?
Yes. Putty.
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Putty's been being distributed over unsecured HTTP for years - I wouldn't be surprised if some companies' IT departments forbid it.
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I did out of irritation the nth time I wanted to delete a file that it insisted was open (which should not be a problem anyway).
>(which should not be a problem anyway).
But it is a problem. And also a difference in philosophy. NTFS gives the user and the process the guarantee that the filesystem will remain consistent. Also as a user, I have a guarantee that the file I have open, represents a file that actually exists on the file system, and not a deleted file.
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Nothing like not being able to delete a directory because Explorer is keeping the folder's thumbnail database open and in use even though you are no longer in the directory.
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I don't know about ssh-copy-id but it definitely supports passwordless logins. You just need to set up ~/.ssh directories as you would on other systems, and ensure the correct file permissions are set. There's a Powershell script to help with that.
> If you need to spend time on Unix/Linux machines, why not just run that on the desktop? I've been Linux only for 10 years and have no issues.
Because at least for Linux, its desktop support is still severely lacking. Maybe it's the distribution I was using (Ubuntu), but all i wanted to do was hook my laptop up to my monitors and use the external monitors alongside my laptop monitor, like I do on Mac or Windows laptops.
I failed.
I remember hand coding an XFree86Config file almost two decades ago to get three monitors setup.
So yeah, that's why I don't work with Linux on the desktop. Because it doesn't work for me on the desktop.
> "I remember hand coding an XFree86Config file almost two > decades ago to get three monitors setup."
Yeah, it's come a long way since then ;) It's 100% plug and play, at least with fedora/ubuntu/debian. Haven't played much outside that realm.
It's 100% plug and play
Is it still necessary to research whether a piece of hardware is supported on Linux, and how well it's supported, before buying the hardware?
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Sorry, you misunderstand. I remember when it was difficult. Having tried it 2 weeks ago, it should not be as difficult as it is.
Two decades ago you had to fiddle with config.sys, autoexec.bat and win.ini too. Do you still judge Windows based on that experience?
Otherwise, multi-monitor setup is plug-and-play. I even have an anecdote, where Thinkpad with Fedora saved a meeting ;)
I'm not judging it on an experience two decades ago. I'm judging it on an experience 2 weeks ago.
Just as another anecdote, I use my Linux laptop with an external monitor every single day. Even have StumpWM configured with keystrokes to switch between portrait and landscape modes (using arandr).
I find the free version of Office 365 is often sufficient for collaborating on Office documents without needing Windows, although they've intentionally left many features out so it isn't a complete replacement.