Hopefully to more people in tech joining unions. Plenty of other well-paid professions are unionised (eg. doctors). For full disclosure I've been a member of Prospect, a non-affiliated union in the UK, for a few years. One of the advantages is free access to legal advice about employment issues.
Is that access to company legal resources or vouchers to independent lawyers? There is a big difference, especially when the legal issue is employment related.
The unionisation of doctors in America is one of the reasons that the American healthcare system is so bad though. Maybe we shouldn't encourage any industry to increase its inefficiency by unionizing, and instead just offer a set of universal regulations that keep workers (both skilled and unskilled alike) from getting shafted?
It takes, weeks to get a sysadmin up to scratch. You can't get scabs in if you go on strike. If the employees turn off google.com for 5 minutes, management will talk.
How is this different from other industries? How long does it take an aerospace machinist to get up to speed? 10 years ago, the strike at Boeing lasted 8 weeks and cost an estimated $100M per day.
This is the most under rated comment in this thread.
Don't know what the Google management is thinking at this point in time. But I'm damn sure, unless you are making it rain hundreds of millions in dollars, and you are a part of these pre-unionizing exercises- You are very likely getting marked up as a trouble maker, and may be already a part of purge lists.
This is also a small industry. You don't want your name to smeared as a person who comes with a high trouble/contribution ratio. Nobody wants to hire people to do their jobs, and get employees running their part time political projects with their fellow colleagues in paid office time, on office issues.
There are also a huge range legal landmines you are likely to step over even without active knowledge that you are.
> Nobody wants to hire people to do their jobs, and get employees running their part time political projects with their fellow colleagues in paid office time, on office issues.
>What you are suggesting is called "blacklisting." You may be interested to learn that in many states it is illegal behavior itself.
Sadly, impossible to prove.
I can choose to not hire for you a plethora of reasons. I can just give you a few bullshit questions that you can't answer correctly and use that as an excuse.
Nobody ever gets interview feedbacks in this industry.
What you are saying is true, but its always impossible to establish intentions. And either way you have to sue. All the best ever getting a job if you are known to do legal fights against prospective employers.
>>Union organizing is not a "part time political project," it is a legally protected right.
One believes in these things only until they become managers themselves. And every one aspires to be one in this industry.
That's ridiculous though.
You can't prove that I, having looked at some super-secret "purge list" and proceeded to not hire you, did it because of the "purge list"?
I'll just say you weren't a good fit for the "company culture" and that'll be that.
So the press reaction was as expected.
Wall Street Journal was all over the strikers, with sexist and "snowflake" comments, demands the protestors be fired. Even comparing them to the coal miners. Remember the great coal-miner strikes? The company running the mines had the idea that they are above the law, that state law doesn't apply to their workers, that the company creates and observes their own laws on their ground with their own workers. The miners demanded that the state law be obeyed. Very similar to todays arbitration clauses, the very first point in the google workers demand. Or todays social media censorship, violating most countries constitutions.
Hopefully to more people in tech joining unions. Plenty of other well-paid professions are unionised (eg. doctors). For full disclosure I've been a member of Prospect, a non-affiliated union in the UK, for a few years. One of the advantages is free access to legal advice about employment issues.
Most tech offices (google included) already give all employees free access to legal resources. It's called an EAP (Employee Assistance Program)
Is that access to company legal resources or vouchers to independent lawyers? There is a big difference, especially when the legal issue is employment related.
The unionisation of doctors in America is one of the reasons that the American healthcare system is so bad though. Maybe we shouldn't encourage any industry to increase its inefficiency by unionizing, and instead just offer a set of universal regulations that keep workers (both skilled and unskilled alike) from getting shafted?
Very few American doctors are unionized. If you're referring to the AMA, it is specifically not a union.
1 reply →
It takes, weeks to get a sysadmin up to scratch. You can't get scabs in if you go on strike. If the employees turn off google.com for 5 minutes, management will talk.
How is this different from other industries? How long does it take an aerospace machinist to get up to speed? 10 years ago, the strike at Boeing lasted 8 weeks and cost an estimated $100M per day.
Many other industries don't require people with lots of experience, like waiters, or front line customer service support or delivery drivers.
The power of the tech workforce is massive. It's like the dockworkers of the modern era. I really hope we start to see this realised.
Agreed. Unionization would solve a lot of the problems. It might create others but overall I think it would be a good idea.
Let's hope to swelling membership in the Tech Worker's Coalition for one.
This is the most under rated comment in this thread.
Don't know what the Google management is thinking at this point in time. But I'm damn sure, unless you are making it rain hundreds of millions in dollars, and you are a part of these pre-unionizing exercises- You are very likely getting marked up as a trouble maker, and may be already a part of purge lists.
This is also a small industry. You don't want your name to smeared as a person who comes with a high trouble/contribution ratio. Nobody wants to hire people to do their jobs, and get employees running their part time political projects with their fellow colleagues in paid office time, on office issues.
There are also a huge range legal landmines you are likely to step over even without active knowledge that you are.
> This is also a small industry. You don't want your name to smeared as a person who comes with a high trouble/contribution ratio.
What you are suggesting is called "blacklisting." You may be interested to learn that in many states it is illegal behavior itself. See https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/employee-....
> Nobody wants to hire people to do their jobs, and get employees running their part time political projects with their fellow colleagues in paid office time, on office issues.
Union organizing is not a "part time political project," it is a legally protected right. See https://www.nlrb.gov/rights-we-protect/whats-law/employees/i....
>What you are suggesting is called "blacklisting." You may be interested to learn that in many states it is illegal behavior itself.
If only the fact that it's illegal actually stopped it from happening.
>What you are suggesting is called "blacklisting." You may be interested to learn that in many states it is illegal behavior itself.
Sadly, impossible to prove.
I can choose to not hire for you a plethora of reasons. I can just give you a few bullshit questions that you can't answer correctly and use that as an excuse.
1 reply →
Nobody ever gets interview feedbacks in this industry.
What you are saying is true, but its always impossible to establish intentions. And either way you have to sue. All the best ever getting a job if you are known to do legal fights against prospective employers.
>>Union organizing is not a "part time political project," it is a legally protected right.
One believes in these things only until they become managers themselves. And every one aspires to be one in this industry.
5 replies →
> You are very likely getting marked up as a trouble maker, and may be already a part of purge lists.
This is also extremely illegal in the EU. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36242312
That's ridiculous though. You can't prove that I, having looked at some super-secret "purge list" and proceeded to not hire you, did it because of the "purge list"?
I'll just say you weren't a good fit for the "company culture" and that'll be that.
1 reply →
And of course it's practised all over. Also in Europe.
You're underestimating how many people are involved in these walkouts. Well over a thousand participated in the NYC office one, for example.
And even if this were true, some things are worth taking risks over.
So the press reaction was as expected. Wall Street Journal was all over the strikers, with sexist and "snowflake" comments, demands the protestors be fired. Even comparing them to the coal miners. Remember the great coal-miner strikes? The company running the mines had the idea that they are above the law, that state law doesn't apply to their workers, that the company creates and observes their own laws on their ground with their own workers. The miners demanded that the state law be obeyed. Very similar to todays arbitration clauses, the very first point in the google workers demand. Or todays social media censorship, violating most countries constitutions.
https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2018/11/quick-thoughts-googl... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_Wars