Comment by yumraj
7 years ago
> Most of the Amish fill large air storage tanks using a gasoline or diesel powered engine.
Isn't that cheating? The electricity is not fine, but gasoline and diesel powered engine, that itself is extracted and refined using electricity is.
They should have compressed air using horse power.
Amish are not anti-technology, they are technology-skeptic and will only adopt a technology if they see that the benefit outweighs the cost, and they are very conservative about their decisions.
http://amishamerica.com/technology/
Just looking at the result, it seems to have worked out well for them. They're a community that has maintained a focus on family and community, and are in a good position to withstand collapse scenarios, since they are much less dependent on the global economic system.
There are also several different "strains" of Amishism, with substantial differences in their technology adoption stances.
Driving through the midwest the most surprising thing I saw was a big Amish family birthday party... at a Texas Roadhouse.
It's a lot of local councils making judgements individually on an case by case basis. The rules can vary quite a lot depending on the individuals involved.
It's also important to remember that most Amish didn't choose that lifestyle, they were born into it. And while it is possible to leave at any time, it is pretty difficult to adjust to a radically different lifestyle with little support on the outside. So instead you see stuff like air powered blenders where people work loopholes so they can lead a more comfortable life while not having to go to extremes.
This is the major difference between the Amish and for example Monks. In the latter case they chose that lifestyle and find it fulfilling in itself. They weren't forced into it.
The are even some 1-2 dozen church districts of New Order Amish that use grid electricity.
>only adopt a technology if they see that the benefit outweighs the cost
I remember reading this explanation a while ago and it seemed completely logical. I feel like I've been swept away with a lot of things without ever stopping to consider its necessity.
A big part of it is the cult of individualism. Do you really think that you, by willpower alone, are going to be able to resist all the temptations of multinational corporations who collectively spend billions researching how to manipulate your lizard brain?
The Amish do it through community, accountability, and literally physically separating themselves from the vast majority of this influence.
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Compressed air systems do have some additional safety problems that more "modern" technologies don't have.
On my thermodynamics course at college the instructor commented that If the lab block's main storage tank for compressed air let go it would flatten the entire building.
This was a full service building , one with air water and electricity plumbed in
I can't help to think that it's entirely so the Amish elites/aristocrats keep themselves in power by limiting access to Media.
But interesting take, they would survive in things like Solar storms/electrical grid collapsed.
Thanks for the link! My initial reaction was quite similar to GP's. However, I still think that, if they use compressed air from a gasoline-based compressor to drive an appliance, that's as good as using a gasoline generator to drive the same appliance (with the option to use a wind-based generator instead).
Think of it less as having an issue with a gasoline generator and more about wanting it to be sufficiently more effort to use it that it takes more thought to decide to do something.
It's a nice life hack in general to create barriers that makes it easier to behave how you want to behave than to take shortcuts.
The thing to remember is they aren't asking you to adjudicate what they are doing.
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Their issue with electricity is with depending on the grid, not with electricity per se. They want to minimize critical dependencies on outside sources, especially single outside sources.
Gasoline is a commodity available from many sources, so doesn't cause the kind of dependency the grid would. Many Amish do use non-grid electricity, from solar cells, batteries, windmill driven generators, or gas powered generators.
I wonder... would the same community be ok with building their own grid, with a small power generation plant? They could run it off hydro/wind/solar and end up LESS dependent on the outside world than they are currently (where they need a steady source of gasoline, the production of which relies on the very same electric grid they want no part of joining).
This feels like a very strange place to draw the line, thought I realize like all such social/religious things, a line has to bee drawn and can be redrawn in the future. Kind of like Shabbat elevators in NYC.[1] Both seem, to me as an outsider, to be somewhere between ingenious life-hack and outright cheating. But, it's not my life and they aren't asking my opinion.
1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabbat_elevator
So, do Amish consider solar power acceptable?
Any question like that is hard to answer as Amish groups are pretty diverse. Some do. It depends on how that particular group views that technology's impact on the community.
Solar power as in stove with parabolic mirror - probably yes, solar power as in photovoltaic panel - probably not. The reason is that you can build one yourself and you can't the other.
No dependency during usage is less bad but you're still depending on manufacturer - and you want to avoid dependency.
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Can solar panels be made in ways they make their current appliances and tools? I'm guessing not. I'm guessing a huge reason solar panels are made in China is because their production pollutes a lot[1]. I'm guessing the Amish are against anything that pollutes.
[1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2018/05/23...
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My understanding is that many Amish are enthusiastic solar adopters, precisely because it's off the grid.
It should be noted that "the Amish" is painting with a very broad brush. It's like saying "All Californians are surfer dudes."
There are many different groups of Amish, each with special rules.
For example, In some communities, tractors of prohibited. But in others, tractors are fine. And in still others, tractors are only OK as long as they don't have rubber tires.
As with any group of humans, generalization is often inaccurate.
Curious, why no rubber tires?
(Or was that just an example to make point)
it is in their faq [1]
>> Tractors are often equipped with steel wheels rather than rubber air tires to discourage its use as a vehicle on the road.
[1] http://amishamerica.com/technology/#tractors
One wonders about how solar panels fit into that. Seems of all people that Amish would be okay with only having minimal amounts of electricity at night.
Gasoline engines use electricity to ignite compressed fuel-air charges. Spark plugs work by arcing electricity over a measured air gap.
Human-cranked flywheel would be even better as it excludes the use of horse-technology, at least for that particular purpose.