Comment by keiferski
7 years ago
When you're growing up in a "regular" setting in Pennsylvania, you tend to regard the Amish as a sort of old-fashioned Luddite curiosity. But once you look into their beliefs and practices regarding technology, it is actually quite rational - and the rest of society could learn a thing or two from them.
Their policy on phones is a good example. While they allow them in particular cases (such as business or keeping in touch with distant family members), they've traditionally kept the phones out the home and in a separate "outhouse" sort of building.
Phones in the home continue to be rejected today, due in part to the symbolic connection to the world but also to preserve the institution of the home. Too much phone usage, as any parents of teenagers may be able to attest to, can compromise family life and time spent with family in general.
Having the telephone shanty away from the home maintains a degree of separation but allows the technology to be used when needed. Its distance from the home also discourages unnecessary calls.
The practical difference between this ideal and our own lives is so minute that the entire idea of shunning modern technology past an arbitrary date still doesn't end up making any sense. We sometimes hold up the Amish and similar communities as "more pure" versions of ourselves, when in reality they are families just like our own - just with (IMO oppressive and patriarchal) orthodox beliefs applied.
Any digital household can attest to maintaining rules like:
"No phones at the dinner table"
"No TV until after dinner and homework"
Is it also not possible to interrupt attentive family time with books and toys, or any other non-digital distractions? Maintaining rules and family time in a household isn't unique to these communities.
> The practical difference between this ideal and our own lives is so minute that the entire idea of shunning modern technology past an arbitrary date still doesn't end up making any sense.
First off, I don't think it's minute at all. Look outside - 95% of people are staring at a screen in their hands. Cell phones in general and social media in particular have completely taken over the social sphere. Casual conversation on the street or in the checkout line has been replaced with pull out your device and scroll. Online dating is rapidly becoming the default dating method. The examples are endless.
Secondly, the Amish don't shun any technology past an arbitrary date. They decide as a community whether or not to introduce a certain technology, depending on its perceived benefits or costs. This strikes me as a rather wise and mature approach, one that the general public would do well to adopt.
And finally, statistically, the Amish have far more robust families and birth rates as compared to the general population. So it seems pretty easy to make the argument that their system results in a greater focus on family, even if adopting similar behaviors (without becoming Amish) is theoretically possible.
I edited my comment away because I didn't think it was useful. Sorry about that.
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I don't think many people with direct dealings with Amish or similar communities would consider them 'more pure'. Heck, I have had a few and the best I can say is that it is very complicated.
There is a lot to admire about Amish communities. They aren't really anti-technology, they're just into a different kind of technology. That has given them strong competitive advantages in areas, for example, they still export farm equipment to third world countries where animals still do a majority of farm labour. Some of their wagons are technological works of art...they just use different technology. The Amish/similar approach to family and group is quite interesting.
I remember going on a tour of a similar group's community. Afterwards, we had some refreshments in their community dining room and we got to mingle and talk to some people. I ended up in a conversation with these two gentlemen about farm implements. Within about thirty seconds, I realized that I was among fellow nerds. They reminded me more of startup founders than I ever would have expected. They were very innovative and obviously very smart. I am not convinced they even think their views on technology make sense, but at this point, I wager it's more about holding onto a way of life than genuine belief.
I might be wrong and hope that wasn't offensive, but that's just a nerdy outsider's point of view on their technology.
There are also downsides. Personally, I find some of their views patriarchal and oppressive, but I was not raised Amish, have never practiced any of those religious and so that's a very uninformed opinion.
Honestly this was a great piece of insight and I think my own view that you replied to is probably closer to being offensive.
The patriarchy and sort of community oppression is the part of these communities that creeps me out, and I don't think those downsides are exactly advertised as part of the Amish "brand." The idea of your own nuclear family's life being so visible to the larger community isn't something that appeals to me.
But then again, neither do some of the more traditionalist family structures that have nothing to do with small religious groups. For example, I wouldn't want to live with my grandparents or parents, personally, but that's based on my own upbringing and experiences.
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The most important effect of all their rules is of course that it creates a cohesive community. If you look at it as a group evolutionary strategy it’s incredibly successful.
And of course most rules and laws in society are “arbitrary”, but in order to be applicable on a mass scale they need to be measurable. For example, there is nothing magical about the age of 18 or 21, but there has to be some easily measurable rule to prevent young and immature people from drinking. So we choose a completely “arbitrary” number like 18 and stick to it.
Why is patriarchal used derogatorily?
I fail to see this as rational. Not least of which is if everyone has telephones in an outhouse how can two houses call each other?
Some solve that with an answering machine - leave a message and set up a time for a call. Pretty much the same method we used back in the old days to call a friend "Hi Mrs Johnson, is billy there? No, he's out. Ok tell him I'll call back at 7pm"
Telephones don't need to be real-time.
If they're just looking to be in contact with each other, then I imagine they'd just walk over to their neighbour's house in person. I imagine the phones are more for situations where they might see the need to call a hospital, etc. (though I have no direct experience with the Amish on that part—only SW Ontario Mennonites)
This is such a good illustration of the disparity between our lives and theirs.
Because the answer is, you go over and talk to them.