Yes, most people learn and use QWERTZ. In your typical electronics store, you will only find QWERTZ keyboards and notebooks. If you want QWERTY, you have only one option, you have to buy it on the internet. But even on the internet the typical Logitech keyboard for example is hard to find in US-QWERTY in Germany/Europe, because most merchants don‘t have them on stock. In the past, I‘ve even imported US keyboards from the US, because they were and are hard to find here.
It gets even more difficult for notebooks: Any notebook you can buy here in Germany has QWERTZ. Want a notebook with US layout, because you are a developer? Your only options are BTO options from Apple or Lenovo. But even there, you have to be cautious: Dell for example will sell you „English“ keyboard layout notebooks as BTO option, but you won‘t get the real US layout (with a wide return and wide left shift key), but some kind of „International English“ ISO layout with a tall return key and a short left shift key... Lenovo has an „English“ option and thankfully you will get a keyboard layout that really resembles the US layout (but with an Euro key).
Only Apple really gives you „US“ as BTO option, and you really get the real US layout. Funny story, I wrote an e-mail to Apple, over ten years ago, when they didn‘t have US layouts as BTO option in Germany... I think it changed something, because one or two years later, Apple changed it, and you will get real US layouts ever since on their online store.
I live in Poland and we pretty much exclusively have QWERTY. QWERTZ is a historal artifact. Not sure if that's still the case but at least until recently, it was installed by default on Windows as an alternative layout, seemingly mostly to confuse non-technical people when they accidentally press the Ctrl+Shift combination to swap.
Interesting. But we have to be clear here: It‘s not only about QWERTZ vs QWERTY. Many countries still have ISO keyboard layout: a tall return key and the left shift key is short (according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QWERTY). The US keyboard is different: the return key is wide and not tall, and the left shift key is also wider. If you once got used to the US layout, it‘s annoying to use an ISO layout, because your pinkies have to move a little larger distance to hit return and left shift, if you know what I mean. :-)
No need to import from the US, in your friendly western neighbor (Netherlands) US qwerty keyboards are the default.
Also, when I lived in France, it was a matter of a phonecall to Dell to get a US qwerty keyboard instead of azerty. No problem at all. I think a colleague asked for an 'English' keyboard and got a UK qwerty, that's the only thing to be wary of.
Really? So it‘s real US and not some kind of ISO English?
Yeah, I‘ve seen that Dell for example sells US BTO options in the Netherlands, but in the past (when I considered an XPS 13), dell.nl didn‘t ship to Germany. But obviously the times have changed, and it‘s much easier today to get US keyboards than 10 or 20 years ago.
> some kind of „International English“ ISO layout with a tall return key and a short left shift key
Those exist here in the US too. They're just a lot less common. I've had the misfortune of having one, in the past. Needed a new keyboard, went to the store, got the cheapest one, came home to... "what is this layout?!"
From my experience working in Germany, yes but a lot of German programmers will use a US layout as it's very hard to reach the necessary brackets and symbols easily on a German keyboard.
Yes, most people learn and use QWERTZ. In your typical electronics store, you will only find QWERTZ keyboards and notebooks. If you want QWERTY, you have only one option, you have to buy it on the internet. But even on the internet the typical Logitech keyboard for example is hard to find in US-QWERTY in Germany/Europe, because most merchants don‘t have them on stock. In the past, I‘ve even imported US keyboards from the US, because they were and are hard to find here.
It gets even more difficult for notebooks: Any notebook you can buy here in Germany has QWERTZ. Want a notebook with US layout, because you are a developer? Your only options are BTO options from Apple or Lenovo. But even there, you have to be cautious: Dell for example will sell you „English“ keyboard layout notebooks as BTO option, but you won‘t get the real US layout (with a wide return and wide left shift key), but some kind of „International English“ ISO layout with a tall return key and a short left shift key... Lenovo has an „English“ option and thankfully you will get a keyboard layout that really resembles the US layout (but with an Euro key).
Only Apple really gives you „US“ as BTO option, and you really get the real US layout. Funny story, I wrote an e-mail to Apple, over ten years ago, when they didn‘t have US layouts as BTO option in Germany... I think it changed something, because one or two years later, Apple changed it, and you will get real US layouts ever since on their online store.
>in Germany/Europe
Wow, I honestly didn't know how widespread non-QWERTY keyboards are in Europe. Wikipedia has a nice map.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QWERTZ
I live in Poland and we pretty much exclusively have QWERTY. QWERTZ is a historal artifact. Not sure if that's still the case but at least until recently, it was installed by default on Windows as an alternative layout, seemingly mostly to confuse non-technical people when they accidentally press the Ctrl+Shift combination to swap.
Interesting. But we have to be clear here: It‘s not only about QWERTZ vs QWERTY. Many countries still have ISO keyboard layout: a tall return key and the left shift key is short (according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QWERTY). The US keyboard is different: the return key is wide and not tall, and the left shift key is also wider. If you once got used to the US layout, it‘s annoying to use an ISO layout, because your pinkies have to move a little larger distance to hit return and left shift, if you know what I mean. :-)
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No need to import from the US, in your friendly western neighbor (Netherlands) US qwerty keyboards are the default.
Also, when I lived in France, it was a matter of a phonecall to Dell to get a US qwerty keyboard instead of azerty. No problem at all. I think a colleague asked for an 'English' keyboard and got a UK qwerty, that's the only thing to be wary of.
Really? So it‘s real US and not some kind of ISO English?
Yeah, I‘ve seen that Dell for example sells US BTO options in the Netherlands, but in the past (when I considered an XPS 13), dell.nl didn‘t ship to Germany. But obviously the times have changed, and it‘s much easier today to get US keyboards than 10 or 20 years ago.
5 replies →
> some kind of „International English“ ISO layout with a tall return key and a short left shift key
Those exist here in the US too. They're just a lot less common. I've had the misfortune of having one, in the past. Needed a new keyboard, went to the store, got the cheapest one, came home to... "what is this layout?!"
From my experience working in Germany, yes but a lot of German programmers will use a US layout as it's very hard to reach the necessary brackets and symbols easily on a German keyboard.
Considering it's the default, even standard (DIN 2137:2018-12), I'd say yes most do.