Comment by philwelch
6 years ago
In 1992 the military was used to put an end to the Rodney King riots in Los Angeles.
There is a spectrum between peaceful protesting and violent insurrection. Burning down police stations, murdering police officers, and stealing rifles from police vehicles is very, very far down the line to violent insurrection. In retrospect I don’t think we were quite there, but we were getting close to it. And ultimately, one of the purposes of the military is to protect our republic from violent insurrection.
Which is closer to violent insurrection: responding to police violence by attacking symbols of the police, or bringing an armed group into a statehouse with the express intent of intimidating lawmakers?
Keep in mind when answering that in most cases, escalations to violence by protests were in response to unnecessary escalating by police forces. We have to evaluate so called bad actors in the context of the response to them.
Are you confident that armed statehouse protests wouldn't have devolved to violence if met with teargas and rubber bullets? Are you confident that police protests would have had similar levels of violence if not pushed towards it by police?
> Which is closer to violent insurrection: responding to police violence by attacking symbols of the police, or bringing an armed group into a statehouse with the express intent of intimidating lawmakers?
By “attacking symbols of the state”, you’re referring to burning down police stations and stealing police rifles from patrol vehicles. Those aren’t “symbols”, they are actual facilities and equipment. In the Seattle incident with the rifles, one of the rioters even opened fire on an abandoned patrol vehicle.
So yes, I would say stealing weapons from a public agency and opening fire with those weapons is much closer to “insurrection” than peacefully carrying your own weapons. For that matter, so do the killings of David Dorn and especially Dave Patrick Underwood.
> Keep in mind when answering that in most cases, escalations to violence by protests were in response to unnecessary escalating by police forces.
It’s clear that your biases are leading you to a very specific judgment of what happened and who is to blame, to the point that you’re bending over backwards to make excuses for arson and murder. To name a more recent incident, the police were not in any way responsible for the act of burning down a Wendy’s in Atlanta; certainly not to the same degree as the extremists who actually burned it down.
But that all distracts from the point. I find your views absurd and morally disgusting, but I would never dream of trying to stop you from expressing them. If you were an elected official who represented the interests and attitudes of some broad group of constituents, I would find value in hearing what you had to say even if I found it reprehensible.
> For that matter, so do the killings of David Dorn and especially Dave Patrick Underwood.
Dorn's killing wasn't obviously connected to protests, and Underwood was killed by far-right "Boogaloo Boys"[0]. Who would be explicitly and vehemently unwelcome at most BLM protests. I'd once again ask you to take the time to re-examine your preconceptions here.
> So yes, I would say stealing weapons from a public agency and opening fire with those weapons is much closer to “insurrection” than peacefully carrying your own weapons.
You've missed the point. I'll reiterate in more detail. There's a respect given to white right-wing protestors carrying your own weapons, both by police and many people that isn't extended to the BLM protests.
For example, you claim that they were "peacefully carrying weapons". Let's ignore for a moment the question of whether "peacefully carrying weapons" is even possible[1], but instead focus on what that respect means.
Most importantly, police actively de-escalate when dealing with armed protestors, but actively escalated with BLM groups. If you take the time to watch videos, you'll see that the large protests are mostly peaceful and self-policing. It's only once police escalate, using weapons and force protestors to break up and lose the civility that was present.
At that point you no longer have a protest but a confused, scared mob. Your solution is to further escalate to requesting military intervention. Mine is to treat unarmed black protestors the same way you treat armed white ones: don't escalate in the first place. Let them protest, peacefully assemble, and leave. In locations where police have allowed that to happen, almost without fail protests have been peaceful, only escalating in direct response to new examples of police violence (Atlanta).
> If you were an elected official who represented the interests and attitudes of some broad group of constituents, I would find value in hearing what you had to say even if I found it reprehensible.
I'm not clear what the point of saying this is. I'm not saying anything about any representatives, not that they should be silenced. If anything, I'm suggesting you listen to even more people: directly listen to those who are oppressed and aren't represented. In the words of Dr. King, "A riot is the voice of the unheard." When you see one, take some time to listen. Not to the system which is clearly not doing a good job of listening, but directly to the people who felt the need to riot.
[0]: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-06-17/far-righ...
[1]: Consider that brandishing is a crime in many jurisdictions and open carry isn't legal everywhere. Open carry is an implicit threat, and calling it "peaceful" implies that there's a sort of peaceful intimidation which seems like a questionable premise. Intimidation basically requires the threat of force or harm.
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> In 1992 the military was used to put an end to the Rodney King riots in Los Angeles.
Yes, we've been wrong more than once.
How do you feel about Eisenhower federalizing the Arkansas National Guard to enforce school desegregation?
I'd prefer if it was done with the federal marshals, or some other civilian organization. Something like the way that Ruby Bridges was escorted to school during desegregation.