Comment by chrisco255
6 years ago
We in the U.S. should have partnered more closely with India in the first place. India is democratic and hold values closer to our own. The CCP not so much.
6 years ago
We in the U.S. should have partnered more closely with India in the first place. India is democratic and hold values closer to our own. The CCP not so much.
International Partnerships are not based on values or Democracy/*cracy. China moved to market based economy earlier then India and being an autocratic country the move was swift and efficient. US wanted to befriend China against Russia in 70s/80s. India started late and kept struggling internally because of the democratic values.
If values were such important, Saudis wouldn't have been your best buddies.
>[not all] International Partnerships are not based on values or Democracy/*cracy
FTFY.
Think about the "special relationship" among the UK/US that is (definitely was) primarily based on values.
The Saudis are a pragmatic ally, not a values-based one. Both exist.
> Think about the "special relationship" among the UK/US that is (definitely was) primarily based on values.
Which values? Atheism? The welfare state? Well defined social classes? The royal family?
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I completely agree, my understanding of why the US did not is due to India's ties with the Soviet Union and Russia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India%E2%80%93Russia_relations
Would love to hear more detail from those who know more on the subject.
US wanted proximity to Afghanistan and always warmed up to Pakistan. China knew Pakistan would never compete with them. Sided with Pak to keep India in check. India had no option but to lean on Russia initially.
More democratic than China, yes. A low bar to clear.
While you may disagree with the current elected government in India (I do as well), it is the definition of democracy. Majority of the population did want that government. Also, in India a person managed to lead a protest, form an entire new party and become the chief minister of a state because people were behind him. That is democracy as well. Tell me when has that happened in the states in recent times.
> Also, in India a person managed to lead a protest, form an entire new party and become the chief minister of a state because people were behind him. That is democracy as well. Tell me when has that happened in the states in recent times.
This seems like a really specific request. I'm not sure what aspect you're looking for. But for starters, here's an interesting wikipedia page for governors that went outside the major parties:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_third_party_and_indepe...
Looks like the most common thing in recent times is to just use the label "independent" rather than start a new party.
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The person you are responding to is based in Ontario and is therefore probably Canadian. I'm not informed enough to have an opinion on Canadian politics, but I do know that Canada is has provinces, not states. ;)
I believe the shift to this is already happening.
That's perhaps why China is getting a bit more cocky
More to do with India being on back foot. Lockdown has halted the economy, millions of migrant workers have been displaced and MSMEs are in disarray. India can't afford to have a war at the moment.
I don't think any substantial shift will happen in near future.
India is controlled by a fascist, ethnonationalist party that has encouraged pogroms toward Muslims and enshrined racial hierarchies into law. They haven’t put Muslims in concentration camps, like the CCP, but I hope our “values” don’t get any closer to their leadership.
I think people abuse the word fascist these days. What makes India fascist? And how does that compare to the economic model of China? Is China fascist?
India is not fascist. The Hindu-nationalism promoted by the BJP and used to degrade and direct violence toward other ethnic groups is a fascist ideology. They never really have tried to pretend otherwise:
> In 2004, when now-Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi was the Chief Minister of Gujarat, school textbooks published by the Gujarat State Board portrayed Hitler as a hero, and glorified fascism. The tenth-grade social studies textbook had chapters entitled "Hitler, the Supremo," and "Internal Achievements of Nazism."
https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/hitlers-hindus-indias-nazi-l...
China is an authoritarian state Capitalist regime, but not fascist, because of its history and relationship with communist ideologies, and how they still shape their internal politics and ruling structures.
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Totally incorrect.
> India is democratic and hold values closer to our own.
Especially in terms of mixing religion and politics and right-wing based supremacy views.
This aside, the societal dynamics at large are remarkably, surprisingly similar.
Spontaneous protests around Floyd's killing are different from the anti CAA protestors. All the protest leaders (students) are in jail and accused of terrorism. Dissent is suppressed. How can the two societies be similar?
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Yup. US should have partnered with India as the largest functioning democracy. But that was 50 years back. Last 6 years though, there is a clear challenge to democracy from right wing and fascist groups. Eerily similar to what happened in pre-Nazi Germany. This decade will tell us if democracy will survive.
Uncritical alliance or support will only strengthen the anti-democratic forces. The govt is very interested in stoking anger against an external force (china) to divert serious failures in handling covid crisis. It had adopted the same strategy using pakistan or muslims as the bogey man several times in the recent past.
True. China did not slaughter 20 Indian soldiers and it's not building up on Indian border. China good. India bad.
I agree, however India has a bureaucracy that makes running and starting businesses over there extremely difficult. As well as aggressive tariffs and Byzantine legal processes. China can be a difficult place, but nothing seems to approach India when it comes to paperwork and the dismal speed at which things get done.
Well, except getting your money out of China is also very hard :)