Comment by tsimionescu
5 years ago
No place in the US is left-dominant (this is true of most of Europe as well). There are right-dominant areas and centrist-dominant areas. Left discourse (think Chomsky) is extremely rare and almost never accepted in the media.
This is untrue when applied to social/cultural political issues. For example, the prevailing view during the Democratic primaries that undocumented immigrants should get universal healthcare coverage is to the left of nearly every EU country. Trump’s order required enhanced scrutiny of immigrants from certain Muslim countries is tame compared to Macron’s plans to essentially nationalize Islam. (And Macron is the left candidate—his far-right opponent is now receiving 45% of the support in polls.) Canada’s point-based immigration system, supported by the left and the right there, which heavily weighs English language fluency, would be denounced as irredeemably racist by the mainstream left in the US. What we are seeing in the media now, with attacks on the country’s founding documents and historical figures, would be utterly condemned in say France.
On social issues, our left is as far left as anywhere else in the developed world.
Hold on. That might have been the prevailing view counted by the candidates on stage, but it's not the prevailing view of the Democratic electorate, or of the nominee (Biden "supports" urgent care for undocumented immigrants, but does not support enrolling them in a national health plan). There was a crystal healer shaman on the stage for several of the debates; you can't just do this by roll call.
I agree with you in spirit, that we're further left than the American left realizes. But on this particular, I think you're wrong.
That’s fair. My point wasn’t to really assert a conclusion about the Democratic Party as a whole, but rather to show that there is a robust social left in the US. To my knowledge, only two Western countries extend universal (rather than emergency) care for undocumented immigrants.
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You're right that on issues of theoretical minority rights, the left-most position is actually pretty common in the US (gay rights, trans rights, feminism, we are all equal regardless of the color of our skin).
But even on the actual practical side of those rights, this is not true. Discriminatory policing practices, reparations for slavery, abortion rights for women, and others have very commonly held right-wing positions even among democratic voters and politicians.
And calling Macron left-wing is funny, especially since the election had a very clear divide: Le Pen for the (extreme) right, Macron for the center (even center-right), and Melanchon for the left (he won slightly less votes than Le Pen, while being universally derided and ignored in the press).
Note that I explicitly said that left-wing discourse is missing from the mainstream in the US AND Europe, and in fact this is true for most of the world in general, with only small pockets in South America and east Asia.
> And Macron is the left candidate—his far-right opponent is now receiving 45% of the support in polls.
A centre-right candidate doesn't become "left" just because there's a far-right candidate. Maybe in the US that rhetoric works, but not in the EU.
What poll are you referring to where Macron's far-right opponent received 45%? Le Pen has 26% - less than Macron - from what I can see [0].
[0] https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/france/
> A centre-right candidate doesn't become "left" just because there's a far-right candidate.
He's the more left candidate for purposes of this comparison, which is to compare where the U.S. is relative to France. So if Macron is to the right of Trump on muslim immigrants (and I think it's fair to say he is), and 45% of French support a candidate that is even further right, I think it's fair to say the U.S. is well to the left of France on the issue.
I was citing a head-to-head matchup in the second round: https://www.ft.com/content/6d8b9c7a-412c-11ea-a047-eae9bd51c...
> A recent Ifop opinion poll put Ms Le Pen narrowly ahead of Mr Macron for an assumed first round of the 2022 election, and within a few percentage points of victory in the second round (45 per cent to his 55 per cent)
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> Left discourse (think Chomsky) is extremely rare and almost never accepted in the media.
It must really baffle you that Chomsky signed this letter.
Why would it? There is a real problem with lack of tolerance of opposing ideas and witch hunting, obviously on the right but also in the center and even on the left.
And I have seen a lot of people on the left raising this problem and discussing how this will ultimately be used against them when, even when today it is done for mlre left-leaning goals. I think Professor Chomsky is extremely well aware of how easily tools of censorship are wielded against the voices of the minority.
And note that a lot of the grand-standing and calls to boycotts on these issues is coming from liberals, not leftists.
I wasn't talking about "the media", but you're just being silly if you can go to a meeting of the Cambridge or Somerville City Councils (a majority of the latter are DSA members or allies, IIRC), or get involved in San Francisco's local politics, and think the Left (ie: the kind of Left that references Chomsky) is an insignificant force in those local contexts.