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Comment by rayiner

5 years ago

There is a 501(c)(3) called the "Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation." That organization created the slogan "black lives matter." That organization has leaders. They're Marxists.

> You're pretty obviously implying that these protests are somehow linked to Marxism, otherwise that entire posts make little sense. I realize that conservatives always want to find some "leaders" to argue with rather than accept that it's a mass movement, not some top-down movement that has some sort of charter that most must directly or indirectly accept.

I am not arguing that we should discredit the narrow goals of the protestors because of the ideologies of the BLM founders. In fact, I said exactly the opposite:

> I am pro-BLM... I think people of every stripe can do something to help finish the job of reconstruction.

But that's not what we're talking about. We are talking about a very specific quote from John Carmack upthread: "the statement 'black lives matter' is easy to agree with if you’re a decent human being." It is disingenuous to the extreme to suggest that one might not reasonably be concerned about the scope of that statement.

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rayiner

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quadrifoliate  5 years ago

The founders of the Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation are Marxists in much the same way that the founders of the United States were slavery advocates. That is, both statements are true, but somewhat incidental to the core idea.

If you reject the thought that the United States has slavery built deeply into its ideology, then you should award that same consideration to BLM and admit that the fundamentals of its ideology are not Marxism etc., but that Black people are fundamentally not given a fair shake by society, as you say.

This is leaving aside the point other posters have made, which is that Black Lives Matter as a slogan and idea exists outside this specific foundation. I don't think you can reasonably expect someone asserting "Black Lives Matter" to have made a complete study of this specific foundation and be in agreement with all its aims.

jahaja  5 years ago

> There is a 501(c)(3) called the "Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation." That organization created the slogan "black lives matter." That organization has leaders. They're Marxists.

So? If there's a Yellow Vests non-profit started in France that has its own charter and leaders doesn't make the yellow vest somehow within that group in any practical sense.

What's your point trying to make this Marxist connection if there's indeed just some what you call leaders with Marxist connections? I mean you're saying that you're unsure if "black lives matter" includes Marxism?

  • torstenvl  5 years ago

    When presenting an argument that has to do with determining characteristics of a group of people (e.g., the philosophical tenets of a movement), it is fallacious to cherry-pick who is and is not a real or representative member of that group. The founders of this group are indeed members and their views cannot be hand-waved away.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

  • rayiner  5 years ago

    Leaders and policy planks matter. Leaders guide thought and policy. Support for a movement empowers that movement’s leaders. In this case, it is empowering people who say things like “capitalism is essentially racist.” https://www.city-journal.org/how-to-be-an-antiracist. The vast majority of protestors may not agree, but it’s the leaders that are giving speeches and writing the books that are included in reading lists and school curriculums.

    These people make concrete conjectures, such as "the capital gains tax preference" (which is nearly universal in the developed world and widely supported by economists) "is racist." And they make concrete policy proposals, such as the following (remember the author has previously defined the capital gains preference to be racist):

    > [The anti-racist amendment] would establish and permanently fund the Department of Anti-racism (DOA) comprised of formally trained experts on racism and no political appointees. The DOA would be responsible for preclearing all local, state and federal public policies to ensure they won’t yield racial inequity, monitor those policies, investigate private racist policies when racial inequity surfaces, and monitor public officials for expressions of racist ideas. The DOA would be empowered with disciplinary tools to wield over and against policymakers and public officials who do not voluntarily change their racist policy and ideas.