Comment by CapricornNoble
5 years ago
The F-15 to this day has a nearly unrivaled kill-to-loss ratio (100+:0), and with the upcoming F-15EX variant will be a backbone of US air combat power for decades. I'd rate it as a superlative engineering program and aviation platform.
No F-15 has been lost in air-to-air combat, but there have been losses. I am not denying that the F-15 is a successful weapons platform, but it didn't fulfill Boyd's outline, and the A through C models were produced in relatively small numbers due to their high cost. The small fleet of F-15A-C also necessitated the lightweight fighter competition, which didn't produce an all-out dogfighter either.
I see the F-4 Phantom II as much more impressive for a number of reasons, including the facts that it was the first airplane with the capability to perform a self-directed intercept, as well as being extremely versatile (serving with the Navy, Air Force, and Marines), and served much longer than most of its contemporaries.
"No F-15 has been lost in air-to-air combat, but there have been losses. "
What a ridiculous metric. All aircraft have non-combat losses; that's the nature of flying a high performance aircraft.
There were almost 1k F-15s built (excluding the Strike Eagle models) for the USAF. Not exactly "small numbers." And the F-15 didn't necessitate the LWFC, that was a budget decision to help protect other aircraft manufacturers.
The F-15 is arguably the second most important fighter the USAF has ever had (the P-51 or P-47 can fight over first). And Boyd has been wrong about many aircraft designs. His fan club hates the way the F-16 turned out, but it too has been incredibly successful by any metric applied.
>"All aircraft have non-combat losses; that's the nature of flying a high performance aircraft."
F-15 have been lost in combat but not air-to-air combat.
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> I am not denying that the F-15 is a successful weapons platform, but it didn't fulfill Boyd's outline, and the A through C models were produced in relatively small numbers due to their high cost.
I'm a big fan of Boyd, but ... the fact that it's a successful weapons platform -maybe the most successful US fighter of all time, seems good enough for me. Sure the Eagle cost a lot; many successful US aircraft were gold plated -the P-38 Lightning, the SR-71, the F-14. The F-15 is not beloved of Boyd acolytes for its gold plated nature, but it certainly fulfilled the energy and maneuverability criteria.
The F-4 was a successful plane in terms of M-D sales, but I'm not sure it was a good plane. It appeared to be, "hook a bunch of decent turbojets up to a shitty 50s airframe (aka the F3H) and stick a big radar in the nose and a guy in the back seat to guide missiles with the radar." Its success seemed due to lack of better US made alternatives more than anything else; though both Vaught and North American had offerings which could have beat it had they been funded (who knows what skulduggery was involved in killing off those programs). American 2nd and 3rd gen fighters were mostly shit, and F-4's were routinely shot down by 1st gen jet fighters and primitive SAMs in Vietnam. Seemed like the Saab and Dassault 3rd gen offerings were nicer in most ways, and IMO the XF-108 or even a souped up F-106 would have beat the pants off it.
air combat power against whom exactly? poor bedouins riding their camels? that's indeed the achievement.