I think this is an important reminder about what an extraordinary accident PCs were in their standardization and openness.
It’s possible we took that for granted and assumed that openness was a given in personal computing.
The reality is that most devices, from cars to refrigerators, to video games, to cameras, etc are closed and proprietary ecosystems. PCs, due to a few happy accidents, were one of the rare things that enabled a vibrant, free from restriction, 3rd party ecosystem in both hardware and software.
Apple may be inadvertently teaching us all a lesson about not taking the things we currently enjoy for granted as they are often not guarantees in the future
I used to hate microsoft for locking us into shitty software for decades.
But looking back I see that they gave us all an enormous windfall in the form of comoditized hardware with decades of hardware growth. (hardware is the complement of OS software, so drive hardware costs down and OS sales go up)
You would think Apple as a hardware company would open up software to increase hardware sales, but instead it seems to try to control everything so it is fighting a battle on multiple fronts.
> You would think Apple as a hardware company would open up software to increase hardware sales, but instead it seems to try to control everything so it is fighting a battle on multiple fronts.
Purely on the business perspective, Apple has seen tremendous benefit with their locked ecosystem and vertical integration. Bringing that strategy to the PC market was bound to happen and it's likely going to work extraordinarily well for their share holders if performance/productivity benefits (from Apple Silicon) at low-mid end forces traditional PC consumers to Mac.
On the consumer perspective, Would we accept a $1000 PC couple of years back with no means to install other Operating System (Officially), Only 3-5 years of updates(if lucky), Use only manufacturer approved apps, Repair only at their approved centres?
Then why did we accept it to be a norm for >$1000 smartphones?
We made them smell money with our consumer decisions to trade 'freedom in computation' in smartphones and it's now coming to haunt us with personal computers. The line between Smartphones and PCs have been blurred with Apple Silicon, Google will do it with their Chromebooks(which was already happening even without their custom silicon [Update cycle, Locked boot-loaders etc.]) and Microsoft with their Surface line up.
Apple started out open. The Apple II has 7 extension slots and loads of peripherals available. It was also user serviceable. This is what Steve Wozniak wanted, and it worked, it was a smashing success. Steve Jobs, on the other hand, had another vision for the company, where Apple would control the user experience. The Macintosh Plus had just two extension slots, and users couldn't open the case, you needed a special extra long screwdriver.
Microsoft forced PC buyers to use their software by making deals with OEMs to preinstall it on every PC, hiding the cost of the software from the consumer. Most consumers did not purchase a PC with no software installed, and then purchase a license to Windows separately; the software and license came with the computer.
There are probably more similarities between Apple and Microsoft than there are differences, however tempting it may be to focus on the differences.
People love to criticise the RPi. It has its flaws and shortcomings. Nevertheless, it is a rare example of a computer that does not come with an "OS" preinstalled. Buyers can choose from a variety of OS and make their own bootable SD cards.
Apple's marketing approach is primarily to view hardware and software as inseparable parts of the same product. Their main differentiator in the market is their ability to control the end-user experience to a greater degree than their competitors.
They are probably of the opinion that opening up software would decrease their target customer satisfaction and subsequently decrease sales.
Apple is now (primarily) a software-service company, and from that point of view, a locked-up platform makes a lot of business sense (unfortunately). Selling hardware is only the first step in locking customers into their service-ecosystem. In this new Apple world, app-developers are essentially Uber/Lyft-style gig-workers, not independent businesses.
Business is conservative. If it stops making bucketloads of money with the current formula then they will change. Otherwise expect the same for as long as it works for them.
Apple is in the business of selling systems that work to end users. Unfortunately, the only way that they can provide that assurance is total control over both the hardware and the software. In fact I suspect that within ten or so years, Apple will eliminate the final dependency -- on NVIDIA -- and migrate the Mac (and everything else) to a custom ISA.
I really think the reality is more boring than openness vs closed-ness as kinds of existential threats to each other.
Given large enough and open enough markets, there’s niches for multiple approaches, whether that was the DOS/Windows approach of proprietary software and commoditized hardware, the Apple approach of proprietary hardware and software that uses open standards (which was also more or less the Unix workstation approach), the Amazon approach of commoditized compute and storage, or the FOSS approach of commoditized software on commoditized hardware which has further subdivisions that gave rise to Linux, GNU/Linux and multiple BSDs. Even MINIX and L4 have niches that they can and do fill, and isn’t QNX used in a bunch of cars?
The economy, American, Global, European, wherever you want to draw your lines, supports all of these approaches simultaneously because they all have benefits and drawbacks. Not the most exciting statement to make, so as an idea I feel like it just gets overlooked. People will use what they will wherever it makes sense and others will look at them funny and wish they did something different.
Still, it’s something to behold that the same decade that saw Apple make more money while locking down and shedding supplier relationships and most of the open standards they used to support also saw Raspberry Pis, Android replace at least three major mobile OSs, the web become more closed off (compared to the prior decades), RISC-V, Microsoft buying GitHub, and Raptor Computing Systems selling open POWER9 workstations. I don’t pay them much mind but I hear System 76 is doing well for itself selling good Linux PCs.
I wouldn’t worry about computers becoming more locked down. Even second and third rate machines in their class are pretty good these days.
This is one of the things that really, really make me mad internally. Phones are exactly like you describe locked down proprietary pieces of hardware. The computing world could be so much better if it everything was open.
I fear everyday that the arm "revolution" will make open computing a thing of the past. Look at the arm laptops that are released. Not a single one can run Linux.
think this is an important reminder about what an extraordinary accident PCs were in their standardization and openness.
You have it backwards. Around the time, everything was open and well documented and hackable. PC, Amiga, ST, Archimedes... It was Macintosh that was uniquely closed.
I think having the ability to use products, any products, for a purpose that wasn't intended by their designers, is important to help overall progress of the humanity.
It was risky then too. MS DOS did have viruses, TSR programs and others could use TCP stacks ( like WatTCP ), data exfiltration via data files was a thing ( eg an infected wordstar that would save other files into a word star document being sent for printing).
I used to sell anti virus, and the threat models for some of the clients were Eye opening.
I always felt manufacturers should be forced to open the boot-loader of their obsolete devices if not for consumer rights at-least "for the environment". Motorola offering unlock codes on their website albeit voiding warranty felt like a breath of fresh air[1].
PinePhone, other open smartphones are not available in my country due to embargo; So Moto G4 Play was the obvious second choice[2] for PostmarketOS due to availability of robust mainline kernel(MSM8916).
But guess what, Motorola removed unlocking support for older devices from their portal[3]! So even though G4 Play is available widely in the used market it's useless for any aftermarket OS efforts. There's absolutely no explanation for this decision from Motorola, other than making people buy their latest devices. So, it seems that the devices unlocked(hacked) by the community is still a better choice in the long run just because the manufacturers cannot be trusted for the devices 'we own?'.
Didn't 'Knox' mess that up for newer phones? Anyways, couple of Samsung A/J series phones does seem to work well with PostmarketOS but unfortunately display brightness cannot be adjusted making it a hard choice.
I was gifted an iDevice but sold it recently as Apple stopped supporting it. Having spent years bringing all PCs back to life with Linux all I could do was think what a waste of hardware!
I agree totally with ipadlinux.org!
> Obsolete iPads could be affordable personal computers and useful for project builds. We believe Linux is the key to bring new life to these devices.
This is one place where apple’s ban on alternative browser engines really hurts users, IMO. I’d be pretty comfy using an old iPad that was out of security support, _if_ it had an up to date browser. But since browser engine updates are tied to OS, there’s no way for obsoleted iPads to keep being safely used as cheap browsing machines.
in this sense it might even be possible that using an outdated android is safer, if you’re just browsing and you’ve got an up to date browser.
What iDevice? The iPad air 2 from 2014 is supported on iPadOS 14 [0] and iOS 14 goes back to the iPhone 6s from 2015 [1]. Even though older devices "aren't supported", Apple still might release an essential update for older iOS like they did with 13.7 [2], 12.4.9 [3], and 10.3.4/9.3.6[4].
6 years is generous in the mobile hardware space, but when compared to traditional PC hardware, which the iPad is increasingly competing against, it is very disappointing for a piece of hardware to be out of luck after 6 years.
On Windows, any Windows 7/8/8.1 users got a free upgrade to Windows 10, and the minimum requirements for Windows 10 are the same as Windows 7 (other than for disk space, Windows 10 requires less). So that's any Windows PC in the last 11 years can still get an OS with security updates. And of course, you can always install Linux on a Windows PC.
The Apple side doesn't go quite as far back, but still most 2012 macs can install Catalina which will be supported until 2022. And Linux is pretty well supported on the non-T2 macs (pre-2015) as well.
I’ve been hoping to see a project like this surface for vintage iPhones. Even devices going back to the iPhone 4S are absurdly fast in a way, great networking, would make fine brains for robots and all sorts of devices. It’s a pity that so many disappear from the world in one way or another.
I actually still have a 5s that I barely used due to country zone restrictions at the time. It would be cool to unlock this and get this running on a Linux os
There are third party repair places that may be able to fix your iPad for you although if it's the digitizer or screen, it may cost more to fix than the iPad is worth.
A new iPad is around AU$500, a replacement LCD is around $35, a replacement digitiser around $25, and the tool set around $15.
The expensive part is labour. If you're willing to risk some time and money on failure you can have a go yourself, there are excellent guides online.
I have an iPad 2 that I bought new long ago and have since given to my young children. Unsurprisingly one of them dropped it and the screen stopped working. I ordered the kit, opened it up, and reseated the LCD. Would have gone flawlessly if I'd been more careful while opening it up, as it stands I now need to replace the digitiser, but it's still much cheaper than a new tablet, especially while my elder daughter is in a phase of thinking she is smarter than us and can ignore warnings like "if you balance that on your knees it will fall off and break."
Even if you don’t get new OS versions, you still get OS patches and security update for several more years. Also the App Store still seems to support devices seemingly forever. I was still able to download apps on my iPhone 3G seven years after I bought it. In terms of useful working life, these things are incredible.
Unfortunately you can’t download apps that the publisher removed from the store (EA Games, looking at you) even if you paid for them. If you don’t backup the IPAs (and/or don’t have a way to install them...) then you’re stuck. At least you can get a refund from Apple if you can find your iTunes/App Store purchase receipt.
Through that website I found the iSH app and it’s amazing. It’s an Alpine Linux shell in an x86 emulator and it’s on the App Store.
I just installed gcc, Java, and Python on my iPad Pro. I can also install Ruby, PHP, etc. I can do most of my work now from my iPad without using Remote Desktop. Game changer. This app should be included on iPad Pro by default.
It’s nice to have. As said in previous comments regarding ish releases, from TestFlight beta to the AppStore, it’s pretty slow compared to something more "native" like termed on android.
I love that it can access files (your iCloud files for instance) from the system but mounting them within "Linux" with a simple "mount -t ios . /mnt". The other way is also possible, accessing is files from the files app.
iSH is very good, and it is Alpine, but it's not _quite_ Linux, if I understand correctly. Note that the output of `uname -a` reports a kernel version of `4.20.69-ish`.
iSH is amazing, but in practice most things don't work.
Try doing a git clone of a large project, it takes forever and the phone gets uncomfortably hot. Also if you don't keep the phone from locking you will have to restart the (possibly 20-30 minute long) process. You can do this by turning on location tracking (this is something apple mandated) which probably turns on the GPS RF amplifier and is one of the fastest ways to drain the battery. I've had the phone shut down while charging leaving the GPS running with another CPU intensive app before (Spotify I think.)
But on the iPad this is just about the only choice.
This is using the Checkm8 exploit which takes advantage of an unfixable BootROM vulnerability that exists on all devices between iPhone 4s to the iPhone X. This includes all ipads and other iOS devices using Apple silicon from the same generation. https://checkm8.info/blog/checkra1n-jailbreak-exploit
1. It's nice hardware (slim, good build quality). 2. Linux often supports hardware well after official support ends, prolonging its usefulness and keeping more gear out of the landfill.
Granted, if you already have the device, then 2 is a good reason.
But buying a new such device doesn't sound like a good idea, even if the hardware is somewhat better. You'd be supporting Apple and this means that (if lots of people have this behavior) the competition falls even more behind. There might come a day when there will be no more exploits left on Apple hardware, and then we're stuck with the choice of going to the competition which might then be worse because of the shortsightedness in our purchasing behavior, or buying into Apple's walled garden.
Making purchases based on marginally better products (following the gradient of quality) may be satisfying in the moment, but is not very wise on the long term.
If I recall correctly, the checkm8 exploit they use is a bootrom exploit, meaning it occurs at a low-enough level exploit that it can only be patched with new hardware. Every iOS version on vulnerable hardware will forever be exploitable.
Hi. Just letting you know, I think this is a shady website. Pangu was a hacking/jailbreaking team, this website has taken that name to lure in people who are looking for a jailbreak tool.
They also have downloads and stuff available but obviously the official sources of such tools should be preferred!
I just really wish there were some alternative uses for iPhones and iPads once they hit obsolescence. I’d love to use them as little smart home interfaces or poor-mans homepods. But they don’t generally support that kind of use...
I'm currently using my old iPhones for doing camera-trap photography and videography. I've got a 5s recording some bird feeders in my yard, for example. Decent camera for filming during the day. Unlike my DSLR, it's not artificially constrained to only recording 15 minutes at time. It's tiny, and if I have it near an outlet I can even power it so I don't need to worry about recharging it. It also does slow-mo if you don't mind going down to 720p. I think an iPhone 6 can do slow-mo at 1080p.
Run a local web server for the interface and enable guided access to prevent accidental clicks and swipes. Should make a decent smart interface or destination to push video or audio.
My mom uses an iPhone 5s as a hearing aid for her TV, with her airpods (1st gen). She cannot be happier. She does not bear using true hearing devices but this has helped her a lot.
maybe sell it on ebay for whatever and buy an old android instead. having an app like tasker makes it a lot easier for that type of automation. you can even use tasker to make a basic interfaces if you want to control a lot of different things from one screen
Android uses the Linux kernel too, if the Linux kernel can run on the iPad, it is probably relatively "easy" to switch to a different userspace. At minimum, one can run (for eg) Debian in a chroot on Android:
It's a completely different approach from iSH (a couple of precompiled binaries and the capability to execute WASM/WASI "binaries", rather than userspace x86 and Linux syscall emulation) but complements it quite nicely in my experience.
My old iPad Air still might have the nicest screen I own across all devices, and great battery life ~7 years later. But it's feeling sluggish and is no longer supported. It's a real shame I can't run Linux on it or at least use it as a portable monitor for my Android phone.
Everyone here harping on about how everything should be as open as “PCs”:
Do you realize that maybe some people desire things that are locked down and curated, and perhaps that may be the reason why Apple is richer than Scrooge McDuck?
And indeed, PC is the odd one out here; Apple have been locked down since before 1984 like the Commodores and Atari STs they grew up with.
Why can’t we have both? The current balance is perfect: Apple for those who like Appleness and PCs/Androids/etc. for everyone else.
By insisting your dogma upon upon those who don’t want it you’re yourself becoming the monsters you profess to combat.
Although yes, I too would like the iPad to be more open. iOS is such a painful gimping of such beautiful hardware.
Remember: app curation by Apple isn't driven by any kind of instrumentation and doesn't prevent malware until after it becomes well known. There is no advantage it gives to consumers, it just prevents apps from taking users from Apple's services.
That is: the iphone app store doesn't improve upon the OSX security situation.
Also, at least the commador64 had publicly available schematics (I think they may have been included with the machine.) The only modern phone doing this that I'm aware of is the PinePhone.
> Do you realize that maybe some people desire things that are locked down and curated
I don't think most Apple users desire this when they're making a purchase. It's more that they don't particularly care as long as the device does what they need it to do.
The desire for devices to be open for tinkering is more from technical users who are already used to open platforms.
Apple could just as well make devices to satisfy both groups, but it's not in their financial interest to do so.
They don't seem mutually exclusive. iPad could be exactly the same for people who want that but still open for people who don't. I assume you're not suggesting people buy Apple stuff because they know others can't play with it, like some weird jealous children?
Why doesn’t every company do everything? Why doesn’t Nintendo make phones? Why doesn’t Boeing make game consoles? They chose a market and they’re serving that, and millions of their customers are happy with them. If people need something different then other companies are there to cater to them.
Remarkable 1 & 2 come with ssh and root access. Whilst they're more eReader than tablet, they are decently powerful, with an active community around them.
Microsoft Surface Go is almost flawless in terms of Linux support, only the webcamera doesn't work. The rest is fine out of the box, with a stock kernel.
It's more of a PC, but that's an advantage I think.
Google seems to be pushing for Linux on Chromebooks with Crostini and I was excited with the idea of having a tablet that can spin up Linux on the go when Lenovo launched the Ideapad Duet earlier this year. Unfortunately couldn't get one as it's not released in my region and it's running on a mid range Mediatek so it's nowhere close to iPad level performance.
It's a bit overwhelming. There is a giant list of phones/tablets here[1] but there is no way to quickly assess their compatibility and compare their capabilities.
I have an iPad mini on which I've forgotten the password and no longer have access to the E-mail address. I didn't steal it, I was using a work address. I no longer work there nor am I on friendly terms with them anymore so access to the e-mail address is out of the question.
The ipad is now blocked. I would love to install linux on it just to get it working, but I can't find any way of unbricking it. I also don't know what to search for on Google.
If the iPad was your property but you used an Apple ID associated to an email address you didn't control, and you forgot the password, you're out of luck.
There is precisely one exception: if you have a copy of the original purchase receipt/invoice which shows the serial number, contact Apple Support and request that Activation Lock be disabled.
I got the iPad from work when it was replaced after going out of service after 3 years. I had my apple account set on it, but initially it was activated with the work address. Now it's under "Activation lock" unless I input my old address and password.
It says "This iPad is linked to an Apple ID. Enter the Apple ID and password used to set up this iPad"
Frankly even though I have been a Linux user for a long time now, I don't even want/wish/hope for Apple to let me run it on Apple hardware. As long as they let me sync my files with something like Syncthing, I'll be happy (also because some of their apps are actually high quality). But even that seems like a no no which is really disappointing.
The focus is on older devices - which Apple might still support somewhat - but most apps won't. I can't get any new apps on my iPad 2, which went upto iOS9. I'm having to run it on iOS8 though, because iOS9 basically makes it unusable by being super-slow.
I think that Apple should make available the private HW keys on the day when they stop support its idevices.
This would support a greener planet and happier people that could keep enjoying their devices based on linux or whatever.
The checkmk8 jailbreak seemed promising, and it given all the crazy talented people in the world, it wouldn't be completely unexpected to see a useful Android port soon.
IIRC someone ran some very limited Android builds. They supported the bare minimum of the hardware features.
I wonder, though, why use Linux kernel? This feels like one of those 10-year projects that will never reach any semblance of a usable state because reverse engineering hardware enough to write drivers is quite an insurmountable task for a project that runs on sheer enthusiasm. Wouldn't it be much easier to use the original Darwin kernel with its 100% working drivers and port the Android userspace to run on top of it, including the .so loader and any necessary shims?
I was thinking the title meant that I could sync an iPad with Linux...too bad. I was hoping that someone made it possible to sync music with the latest iOS.
Why would you use an ipad for linux when you pay triple what you should for the tablet to get Apple's OS on it? Must be just a challenge since you don't own your tablet (AKA root).
the website says "With hardware becoming more and more powerful every year, obsolete iPads (according to Apple) should be allowed to continue to serve a purpose."
Among other factors: standardisation of form factors providing a useful hardware accessory market.
Tablets of and by themselves are pretty, but not especially useful. aa folio keyboard combination (case with integrated keyboard) is a game-changer ... but must be specifically fit to every individual tablet size, which Android device manufacturers have insisted on not standardising. Desktop systems need only agree on connector ports, tablet design requires agreement on all dimensions of the tablet. And nobody's doing that in Android land.
(There are othher grievous problems with Android, I'm focusing on the physical here.)
Apple's iPads, at least, offer a set of fixed sizes and are (for now) ensuring matching keyboards through third-party vendors. Many of those keyboards are crippled for Linux use (missing critical keys, such as esc, or entire rows, as with function or numeric keys), but there are at least a few options.
Apple are also providing extensive onboard storage up to 1 TB or more), where Android offerings are still often only a few GB. The latter is insufficient for my primary use: as a portable text library. (128 GB is about the minimum useful storage for this). Audio, image, or video work is even more constrained.
The reader function is where tablets shine over laptops, at least in form. The latter have compute power and flexibility, but displays are unsuited to reading, especially at 9:16 ratios: too short to read portrait, too small to display 2-up readably, and incapable of rotating in most cases. A tablet in portrait mode is a reasonably good reading device. Except that the OS and app infrastructure are utterly unsuited.
This is a long-standing complaint, and I'm seeing little progress. Google have no interest in breaking free of advertising-based captive markets, Apple ... I don't know why, but are similarly brain damaged.
It's the war on general-purpose computing. From at least two fronts.
I think this is an important reminder about what an extraordinary accident PCs were in their standardization and openness.
It’s possible we took that for granted and assumed that openness was a given in personal computing.
The reality is that most devices, from cars to refrigerators, to video games, to cameras, etc are closed and proprietary ecosystems. PCs, due to a few happy accidents, were one of the rare things that enabled a vibrant, free from restriction, 3rd party ecosystem in both hardware and software.
Apple may be inadvertently teaching us all a lesson about not taking the things we currently enjoy for granted as they are often not guarantees in the future
I used to hate microsoft for locking us into shitty software for decades.
But looking back I see that they gave us all an enormous windfall in the form of comoditized hardware with decades of hardware growth. (hardware is the complement of OS software, so drive hardware costs down and OS sales go up)
You would think Apple as a hardware company would open up software to increase hardware sales, but instead it seems to try to control everything so it is fighting a battle on multiple fronts.
> You would think Apple as a hardware company would open up software to increase hardware sales, but instead it seems to try to control everything so it is fighting a battle on multiple fronts.
Purely on the business perspective, Apple has seen tremendous benefit with their locked ecosystem and vertical integration. Bringing that strategy to the PC market was bound to happen and it's likely going to work extraordinarily well for their share holders if performance/productivity benefits (from Apple Silicon) at low-mid end forces traditional PC consumers to Mac.
On the consumer perspective, Would we accept a $1000 PC couple of years back with no means to install other Operating System (Officially), Only 3-5 years of updates(if lucky), Use only manufacturer approved apps, Repair only at their approved centres?
Then why did we accept it to be a norm for >$1000 smartphones?
We made them smell money with our consumer decisions to trade 'freedom in computation' in smartphones and it's now coming to haunt us with personal computers. The line between Smartphones and PCs have been blurred with Apple Silicon, Google will do it with their Chromebooks(which was already happening even without their custom silicon [Update cycle, Locked boot-loaders etc.]) and Microsoft with their Surface line up.
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Apple started out open. The Apple II has 7 extension slots and loads of peripherals available. It was also user serviceable. This is what Steve Wozniak wanted, and it worked, it was a smashing success. Steve Jobs, on the other hand, had another vision for the company, where Apple would control the user experience. The Macintosh Plus had just two extension slots, and users couldn't open the case, you needed a special extra long screwdriver.
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Another way to look at it:
Microsoft forced PC buyers to use their software by making deals with OEMs to preinstall it on every PC, hiding the cost of the software from the consumer. Most consumers did not purchase a PC with no software installed, and then purchase a license to Windows separately; the software and license came with the computer.
There are probably more similarities between Apple and Microsoft than there are differences, however tempting it may be to focus on the differences.
People love to criticise the RPi. It has its flaws and shortcomings. Nevertheless, it is a rare example of a computer that does not come with an "OS" preinstalled. Buyers can choose from a variety of OS and make their own bootable SD cards.
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It was not Microsoft, it was IBM that “gave us” commoditized hardware.
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Apple's marketing approach is primarily to view hardware and software as inseparable parts of the same product. Their main differentiator in the market is their ability to control the end-user experience to a greater degree than their competitors.
They are probably of the opinion that opening up software would decrease their target customer satisfaction and subsequently decrease sales.
> Apple as a hardware company
Apple is now (primarily) a software-service company, and from that point of view, a locked-up platform makes a lot of business sense (unfortunately). Selling hardware is only the first step in locking customers into their service-ecosystem. In this new Apple world, app-developers are essentially Uber/Lyft-style gig-workers, not independent businesses.
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IBM did that by licensing the PC "clone" design, not Microsoft. Microsoft added the lockdown layer on top.
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Business is conservative. If it stops making bucketloads of money with the current formula then they will change. Otherwise expect the same for as long as it works for them.
Nobody who actually understands Apple's business and how it works "would think" this.
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Apple is in the business of selling systems that work to end users. Unfortunately, the only way that they can provide that assurance is total control over both the hardware and the software. In fact I suspect that within ten or so years, Apple will eliminate the final dependency -- on NVIDIA -- and migrate the Mac (and everything else) to a custom ISA.
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I really think the reality is more boring than openness vs closed-ness as kinds of existential threats to each other.
Given large enough and open enough markets, there’s niches for multiple approaches, whether that was the DOS/Windows approach of proprietary software and commoditized hardware, the Apple approach of proprietary hardware and software that uses open standards (which was also more or less the Unix workstation approach), the Amazon approach of commoditized compute and storage, or the FOSS approach of commoditized software on commoditized hardware which has further subdivisions that gave rise to Linux, GNU/Linux and multiple BSDs. Even MINIX and L4 have niches that they can and do fill, and isn’t QNX used in a bunch of cars?
The economy, American, Global, European, wherever you want to draw your lines, supports all of these approaches simultaneously because they all have benefits and drawbacks. Not the most exciting statement to make, so as an idea I feel like it just gets overlooked. People will use what they will wherever it makes sense and others will look at them funny and wish they did something different.
Still, it’s something to behold that the same decade that saw Apple make more money while locking down and shedding supplier relationships and most of the open standards they used to support also saw Raspberry Pis, Android replace at least three major mobile OSs, the web become more closed off (compared to the prior decades), RISC-V, Microsoft buying GitHub, and Raptor Computing Systems selling open POWER9 workstations. I don’t pay them much mind but I hear System 76 is doing well for itself selling good Linux PCs.
I wouldn’t worry about computers becoming more locked down. Even second and third rate machines in their class are pretty good these days.
It's interesting to think that if Apple had won the PC wars how closed everything would be.
It's actually /why/ they never had a chance of winning.
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Virtually every desktop computer today uses a bitmapped display and a pointing device... like the Macintosh.
Virtually every mobile device today uses a touch-sensitive display (and a Unix-derived OS)... like the iPhone.
Apple Inc. is the most valuable company in human history.
Tell me again how Apple lost the PC wars? ;-)
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This is one of the things that really, really make me mad internally. Phones are exactly like you describe locked down proprietary pieces of hardware. The computing world could be so much better if it everything was open.
I fear everyday that the arm "revolution" will make open computing a thing of the past. Look at the arm laptops that are released. Not a single one can run Linux.
The pine book pro runs linux. Also, the bootloader can be unlocked on the new mac arm laptops.
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But Linux can run on arm just fine? I used to run my website and a bunch of other stuff on an arm64 VPS.
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> Not a single one can run Linux.
My ARM Chromebook which boots into Linux would beg to differ.
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>Look at the arm laptops that are released. Not a single one can run Linux.
Some of the earliest ARM laptops ran Chrome OS, which is an image based Linux distro (vs package based).
People have been running more recognizable distros on some of these models for a long time, with varying degrees of success.
Take it easy on the hyperbole. There are definitely options.
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think this is an important reminder about what an extraordinary accident PCs were in their standardization and openness.
You have it backwards. Around the time, everything was open and well documented and hackable. PC, Amiga, ST, Archimedes... It was Macintosh that was uniquely closed.
I think having the ability to use products, any products, for a purpose that wasn't intended by their designers, is important to help overall progress of the humanity.
I don't know if that really happened by accident. I rather think it's the true nature of information to be open, and therefore for the platforms too
Yes, we should all have access to the US Gold Codes
Pdp-11 and VAX were also open.
Not exactly mass consumer devices.
It was cool back then, I played commander keen and lemmings on a gateway 2k. Lots of power, reactively cheap for a “ibm clone.”
But the reality is things are different now. The threat model is different.
You can’t just copy a “cdrom” full of 200 shareware titles you got in the mail and let your kids randomly run executables.
It was risky then too. MS DOS did have viruses, TSR programs and others could use TCP stacks ( like WatTCP ), data exfiltration via data files was a thing ( eg an infected wordstar that would save other files into a word star document being sent for printing).
I used to sell anti virus, and the threat models for some of the clients were Eye opening.
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You can on a raspberry pi. I recently confirmed keen runs as well on a rpi4 as it did on my old gw2k.
Win 3.1 audio drivers under dosbox are a bit beyond my current capacity for tinkering though.
I always felt manufacturers should be forced to open the boot-loader of their obsolete devices if not for consumer rights at-least "for the environment". Motorola offering unlock codes on their website albeit voiding warranty felt like a breath of fresh air[1].
PinePhone, other open smartphones are not available in my country due to embargo; So Moto G4 Play was the obvious second choice[2] for PostmarketOS due to availability of robust mainline kernel(MSM8916).
But guess what, Motorola removed unlocking support for older devices from their portal[3]! So even though G4 Play is available widely in the used market it's useless for any aftermarket OS efforts. There's absolutely no explanation for this decision from Motorola, other than making people buy their latest devices. So, it seems that the devices unlocked(hacked) by the community is still a better choice in the long run just because the manufacturers cannot be trusted for the devices 'we own?'.
[1]https://motorola-global-portal.custhelp.com/app/standalone/b...
[2]https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11rieZf6ODM-HQkEpFYWX...
[3]https://support.motorola.com/us/en/solution/MS87215
I wonder if the right to repair laws that are gaining momentum might help fix this.
The forced open bootloader proposal is the only right to repair law that makes any sense.
Samsung has had bootloader unlocking as a feature in all their mobile devices for a very long time. It is available for all devices, new or old.
> Samsung has had bootloader unlocking as a feature in all their mobile devices
This is simply not true. Some of their devices provide that but many don't. Research carefully before purchasing.
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Didn't 'Knox' mess that up for newer phones? Anyways, couple of Samsung A/J series phones does seem to work well with PostmarketOS but unfortunately display brightness cannot be adjusted making it a hard choice.
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I was gifted an iDevice but sold it recently as Apple stopped supporting it. Having spent years bringing all PCs back to life with Linux all I could do was think what a waste of hardware!
I agree totally with ipadlinux.org!
> Obsolete iPads could be affordable personal computers and useful for project builds. We believe Linux is the key to bring new life to these devices.
Looking forward!
This is one place where apple’s ban on alternative browser engines really hurts users, IMO. I’d be pretty comfy using an old iPad that was out of security support, _if_ it had an up to date browser. But since browser engine updates are tied to OS, there’s no way for obsoleted iPads to keep being safely used as cheap browsing machines. in this sense it might even be possible that using an outdated android is safer, if you’re just browsing and you’ve got an up to date browser.
What iDevice? The iPad air 2 from 2014 is supported on iPadOS 14 [0] and iOS 14 goes back to the iPhone 6s from 2015 [1]. Even though older devices "aren't supported", Apple still might release an essential update for older iOS like they did with 13.7 [2], 12.4.9 [3], and 10.3.4/9.3.6[4].
0: https://www.apple.com/ipados/ipados-14/#content-toggle-spati...
1: https://www.apple.com/ios/ios-14/#content-toggle-fast-loadin...
2: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210393#137
3: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211940
4: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210239
6 years is generous in the mobile hardware space, but when compared to traditional PC hardware, which the iPad is increasingly competing against, it is very disappointing for a piece of hardware to be out of luck after 6 years.
On Windows, any Windows 7/8/8.1 users got a free upgrade to Windows 10, and the minimum requirements for Windows 10 are the same as Windows 7 (other than for disk space, Windows 10 requires less). So that's any Windows PC in the last 11 years can still get an OS with security updates. And of course, you can always install Linux on a Windows PC.
The Apple side doesn't go quite as far back, but still most 2012 macs can install Catalina which will be supported until 2022. And Linux is pretty well supported on the non-T2 macs (pre-2015) as well.
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iPad 2. Also had an iPad 3, both are no longer supported by Apple.
Hurts, because the hardware still works.
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I’ve been hoping to see a project like this surface for vintage iPhones. Even devices going back to the iPhone 4S are absurdly fast in a way, great networking, would make fine brains for robots and all sorts of devices. It’s a pity that so many disappear from the world in one way or another.
I actually still have a 5s that I barely used due to country zone restrictions at the time. It would be cool to unlock this and get this running on a Linux os
There are third party repair places that may be able to fix your iPad for you although if it's the digitizer or screen, it may cost more to fix than the iPad is worth.
A new iPad is around AU$500, a replacement LCD is around $35, a replacement digitiser around $25, and the tool set around $15.
The expensive part is labour. If you're willing to risk some time and money on failure you can have a go yourself, there are excellent guides online.
I have an iPad 2 that I bought new long ago and have since given to my young children. Unsurprisingly one of them dropped it and the screen stopped working. I ordered the kit, opened it up, and reseated the LCD. Would have gone flawlessly if I'd been more careful while opening it up, as it stands I now need to replace the digitiser, but it's still much cheaper than a new tablet, especially while my elder daughter is in a phase of thinking she is smarter than us and can ignore warnings like "if you balance that on your knees it will fall off and break."
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Even if you don’t get new OS versions, you still get OS patches and security update for several more years. Also the App Store still seems to support devices seemingly forever. I was still able to download apps on my iPhone 3G seven years after I bought it. In terms of useful working life, these things are incredible.
Unfortunately you can’t download apps that the publisher removed from the store (EA Games, looking at you) even if you paid for them. If you don’t backup the IPAs (and/or don’t have a way to install them...) then you’re stuck. At least you can get a refund from Apple if you can find your iTunes/App Store purchase receipt.
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Through that website I found the iSH app and it’s amazing. It’s an Alpine Linux shell in an x86 emulator and it’s on the App Store.
I just installed gcc, Java, and Python on my iPad Pro. I can also install Ruby, PHP, etc. I can do most of my work now from my iPad without using Remote Desktop. Game changer. This app should be included on iPad Pro by default.
It’s nice to have. As said in previous comments regarding ish releases, from TestFlight beta to the AppStore, it’s pretty slow compared to something more "native" like termed on android.
I love that it can access files (your iCloud files for instance) from the system but mounting them within "Linux" with a simple "mount -t ios . /mnt". The other way is also possible, accessing is files from the files app.
iSH is very good, and it is Alpine, but it's not _quite_ Linux, if I understand correctly. Note that the output of `uname -a` reports a kernel version of `4.20.69-ish`.
It reimplements system calls at the moment; you can consider it to be similar to Wine or WSL1.
Is that a real version number or just a week+sex number joke?
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iSH is amazing, but in practice most things don't work.
Try doing a git clone of a large project, it takes forever and the phone gets uncomfortably hot. Also if you don't keep the phone from locking you will have to restart the (possibly 20-30 minute long) process. You can do this by turning on location tracking (this is something apple mandated) which probably turns on the GPS RF amplifier and is one of the fastest ways to drain the battery. I've had the phone shut down while charging leaving the GPS running with another CPU intensive app before (Spotify I think.)
But on the iPad this is just about the only choice.
What happens when Apple fixes the exploit? Perhaps they can even do it remotely.
From this my only reaction is: why even bother with Apple hardware? You can't build on the brand, it's just a too unreliable path to take.
This is using the Checkm8 exploit which takes advantage of an unfixable BootROM vulnerability that exists on all devices between iPhone 4s to the iPhone X. This includes all ipads and other iOS devices using Apple silicon from the same generation. https://checkm8.info/blog/checkra1n-jailbreak-exploit
> why even bother with Apple hardware?
1. It's nice hardware (slim, good build quality). 2. Linux often supports hardware well after official support ends, prolonging its usefulness and keeping more gear out of the landfill.
Granted, if you already have the device, then 2 is a good reason.
But buying a new such device doesn't sound like a good idea, even if the hardware is somewhat better. You'd be supporting Apple and this means that (if lots of people have this behavior) the competition falls even more behind. There might come a day when there will be no more exploits left on Apple hardware, and then we're stuck with the choice of going to the competition which might then be worse because of the shortsightedness in our purchasing behavior, or buying into Apple's walled garden.
Making purchases based on marginally better products (following the gradient of quality) may be satisfying in the moment, but is not very wise on the long term.
If I recall correctly, the checkm8 exploit they use is a bootrom exploit, meaning it occurs at a low-enough level exploit that it can only be patched with new hardware. Every iOS version on vulnerable hardware will forever be exploitable.
See “iDevice Compatibility” on this page: https://pangu8.com/jailbreak/checkm8/
Hi. Just letting you know, I think this is a shady website. Pangu was a hacking/jailbreaking team, this website has taken that name to lure in people who are looking for a jailbreak tool.
They also have downloads and stuff available but obviously the official sources of such tools should be preferred!
I just really wish there were some alternative uses for iPhones and iPads once they hit obsolescence. I’d love to use them as little smart home interfaces or poor-mans homepods. But they don’t generally support that kind of use...
I'm currently using my old iPhones for doing camera-trap photography and videography. I've got a 5s recording some bird feeders in my yard, for example. Decent camera for filming during the day. Unlike my DSLR, it's not artificially constrained to only recording 15 minutes at time. It's tiny, and if I have it near an outlet I can even power it so I don't need to worry about recharging it. It also does slow-mo if you don't mind going down to 720p. I think an iPhone 6 can do slow-mo at 1080p.
Looks cool. How you solve the small space issue in old models?
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Run a local web server for the interface and enable guided access to prevent accidental clicks and swipes. Should make a decent smart interface or destination to push video or audio.
My mom uses an iPhone 5s as a hearing aid for her TV, with her airpods (1st gen). She cannot be happier. She does not bear using true hearing devices but this has helped her a lot.
maybe sell it on ebay for whatever and buy an old android instead. having an app like tasker makes it a lot easier for that type of automation. you can even use tasker to make a basic interfaces if you want to control a lot of different things from one screen
Android isn’t really what I’d call ‘Linux’ on the iPad.
I’d be interested in running a real Linux on my old iPad hardware.
Android uses the Linux kernel too, if the Linux kernel can run on the iPad, it is probably relatively "easy" to switch to a different userspace. At minimum, one can run (for eg) Debian in a chroot on Android:
https://wiki.debian.org/ChrootOnAndroid
I think you meant GNU/Linux instead of "real".
Android is a real Linux in the same way that iOS is a real BSD Unix.
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a-Shell [0] is missing from this list.
It's a completely different approach from iSH (a couple of precompiled binaries and the capability to execute WASM/WASI "binaries", rather than userspace x86 and Linux syscall emulation) but complements it quite nicely in my experience.
[0]: https://holzschu.github.io/a-Shell_iOS/
Still have some old ipads (new iPad, 3rd gen, iOS9) and other iDevices. Would live to run Linux in them... But this is not doing that, right?
My old iPad Air still might have the nicest screen I own across all devices, and great battery life ~7 years later. But it's feeling sluggish and is no longer supported. It's a real shame I can't run Linux on it or at least use it as a portable monitor for my Android phone.
Everyone here harping on about how everything should be as open as “PCs”:
Do you realize that maybe some people desire things that are locked down and curated, and perhaps that may be the reason why Apple is richer than Scrooge McDuck?
And indeed, PC is the odd one out here; Apple have been locked down since before 1984 like the Commodores and Atari STs they grew up with.
Why can’t we have both? The current balance is perfect: Apple for those who like Appleness and PCs/Androids/etc. for everyone else.
By insisting your dogma upon upon those who don’t want it you’re yourself becoming the monsters you profess to combat.
Although yes, I too would like the iPad to be more open. iOS is such a painful gimping of such beautiful hardware.
Remember: app curation by Apple isn't driven by any kind of instrumentation and doesn't prevent malware until after it becomes well known. There is no advantage it gives to consumers, it just prevents apps from taking users from Apple's services.
That is: the iphone app store doesn't improve upon the OSX security situation.
Also, at least the commador64 had publicly available schematics (I think they may have been included with the machine.) The only modern phone doing this that I'm aware of is the PinePhone.
> Do you realize that maybe some people desire things that are locked down and curated
I don't think most Apple users desire this when they're making a purchase. It's more that they don't particularly care as long as the device does what they need it to do.
The desire for devices to be open for tinkering is more from technical users who are already used to open platforms.
Apple could just as well make devices to satisfy both groups, but it's not in their financial interest to do so.
They don't seem mutually exclusive. iPad could be exactly the same for people who want that but still open for people who don't. I assume you're not suggesting people buy Apple stuff because they know others can't play with it, like some weird jealous children?
Why couldn’t Apple provide this choice?
Why doesn’t every company do everything? Why doesn’t Nintendo make phones? Why doesn’t Boeing make game consoles? They chose a market and they’re serving that, and millions of their customers are happy with them. If people need something different then other companies are there to cater to them.
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What is a good tablet that can run Linux?
Remarkable 1 & 2 come with ssh and root access. Whilst they're more eReader than tablet, they are decently powerful, with an active community around them.
Microsoft Surface Go is almost flawless in terms of Linux support, only the webcamera doesn't work. The rest is fine out of the box, with a stock kernel.
It's more of a PC, but that's an advantage I think.
Is there an up-to-date resource like r/SurfaceLinux? The compatibility guide in the side bar doesn't even list to Go devices.
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Google Pixel C: https://github.com/pixelc-linux/documentation
Disclaimer: I'm one of the authors
Is there an available form-fitting folio keyboard with at least a six-row PC-104/105 equivalent keyboard?
https://ello.co/dredmorbius/post/lqgtwy_rhsfbdh5cdxb1rq
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This is what I’d buy:
https://www.pine64.org/pinetab/
Haven’t used one. I like the pinebook pro.
It's out of stock though. :(
Google seems to be pushing for Linux on Chromebooks with Crostini and I was excited with the idea of having a tablet that can spin up Linux on the go when Lenovo launched the Ideapad Duet earlier this year. Unfortunately couldn't get one as it's not released in my region and it's running on a mid range Mediatek so it's nowhere close to iPad level performance.
Not a tablet exactly, but some Chromebooks can run a Linux VM.
a container, with all the things that this implies - no direct network hardware access, for example
Checkout the hardware comparability on PostmarketOS's wiki
It's a bit overwhelming. There is a giant list of phones/tablets here[1] but there is no way to quickly assess their compatibility and compare their capabilities.
1 - https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices
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It's also possible to get Linux on iPad with raspberry pi as an accessory: https://youtu.be/IR6sDcKo3V8
I have an iPad mini on which I've forgotten the password and no longer have access to the E-mail address. I didn't steal it, I was using a work address. I no longer work there nor am I on friendly terms with them anymore so access to the e-mail address is out of the question.
The ipad is now blocked. I would love to install linux on it just to get it working, but I can't find any way of unbricking it. I also don't know what to search for on Google.
Do I have any chance with it?
If the iPad was your property but you used an Apple ID associated to an email address you didn't control, and you forgot the password, you're out of luck.
There is precisely one exception: if you have a copy of the original purchase receipt/invoice which shows the serial number, contact Apple Support and request that Activation Lock be disabled.
I got the iPad from work when it was replaced after going out of service after 3 years. I had my apple account set on it, but initially it was activated with the work address. Now it's under "Activation lock" unless I input my old address and password.
It says "This iPad is linked to an Apple ID. Enter the Apple ID and password used to set up this iPad"
Obviously I don't have the receipt.
I was hoping this would bring a dead weight ipad mini back to life, but was very sad to not see it on the support list. Great project either way!
Frankly even though I have been a Linux user for a long time now, I don't even want/wish/hope for Apple to let me run it on Apple hardware. As long as they let me sync my files with something like Syncthing, I'll be happy (also because some of their apps are actually high quality). But even that seems like a no no which is really disappointing.
The focus is on older devices - which Apple might still support somewhat - but most apps won't. I can't get any new apps on my iPad 2, which went upto iOS9. I'm having to run it on iOS8 though, because iOS9 basically makes it unusable by being super-slow.
Ish might support that. It can export its file system as an ios folder, and there’s a way to force ios to let it run daemons in the background.
However, you might have to manually start it at each reboot or something.
Was surprised to learn people have booted Android on iPhone 7 successfully. Could others really build a full OS from the exploit?
Something like this would be great. Linux running on an iPad pro would be a dream mobile setup.
I'd settle for Rockbox on older hardware...a full Linux setup would be amazing.
I think that Apple should make available the private HW keys on the day when they stop support its idevices. This would support a greener planet and happier people that could keep enjoying their devices based on linux or whatever.
What is the status of Android on iPhone?
The checkmk8 jailbreak seemed promising, and it given all the crazy talented people in the world, it wouldn't be completely unexpected to see a useful Android port soon.
IIRC someone ran some very limited Android builds. They supported the bare minimum of the hardware features.
I wonder, though, why use Linux kernel? This feels like one of those 10-year projects that will never reach any semblance of a usable state because reverse engineering hardware enough to write drivers is quite an insurmountable task for a project that runs on sheer enthusiasm. Wouldn't it be much easier to use the original Darwin kernel with its 100% working drivers and port the Android userspace to run on top of it, including the .so loader and any necessary shims?
It has jailbroken Linux on iPhone 7; there are no full jailbroken iPad (Pro) options?
Anyone use the altstore and how safe is that. Got source like GitHub or just binary?
Try vi and after escape cannot type q! May be why they said only Ed
TL;DR - it's a wish
The title on the page is "Linux on iPad"
I was thinking the title meant that I could sync an iPad with Linux...too bad. I was hoping that someone made it possible to sync music with the latest iOS.
Yes. Can someone fix this? I only clicked because I was puzzled. Was expecting something about emulating iOS on Linux.
and the caption is “iPad Linux”.
It's just inviting 'GNU with Linux' jokes really, isn't it.
It would be if it were actually Gnu, but it’s just Android.
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... or as I've recently taken to calling it, iPad plus Linux.
Why would you use an ipad for linux when you pay triple what you should for the tablet to get Apple's OS on it? Must be just a challenge since you don't own your tablet (AKA root).
Apple's tablets are essentially the only ones worth buying; nobody really makes good ones these days.
The latest Samsung Tab is pretty good; did you try it?
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lol... you must be a stock holder
the website says "With hardware becoming more and more powerful every year, obsolete iPads (according to Apple) should be allowed to continue to serve a purpose."
> obsolete iPads (according to Apple) should be allowed to continue to serve a purpose
props to apple for pushing linux (just kidding)
Among other factors: standardisation of form factors providing a useful hardware accessory market.
Tablets of and by themselves are pretty, but not especially useful. aa folio keyboard combination (case with integrated keyboard) is a game-changer ... but must be specifically fit to every individual tablet size, which Android device manufacturers have insisted on not standardising. Desktop systems need only agree on connector ports, tablet design requires agreement on all dimensions of the tablet. And nobody's doing that in Android land.
https://ello.co/dredmorbius/post/lqgtwy_rhsfbdh5cdxb1rq
(There are othher grievous problems with Android, I'm focusing on the physical here.)
Apple's iPads, at least, offer a set of fixed sizes and are (for now) ensuring matching keyboards through third-party vendors. Many of those keyboards are crippled for Linux use (missing critical keys, such as esc, or entire rows, as with function or numeric keys), but there are at least a few options.
Apple are also providing extensive onboard storage up to 1 TB or more), where Android offerings are still often only a few GB. The latter is insufficient for my primary use: as a portable text library. (128 GB is about the minimum useful storage for this). Audio, image, or video work is even more constrained.
The reader function is where tablets shine over laptops, at least in form. The latter have compute power and flexibility, but displays are unsuited to reading, especially at 9:16 ratios: too short to read portrait, too small to display 2-up readably, and incapable of rotating in most cases. A tablet in portrait mode is a reasonably good reading device. Except that the OS and app infrastructure are utterly unsuited.
This is a long-standing complaint, and I'm seeing little progress. Google have no interest in breaking free of advertising-based captive markets, Apple ... I don't know why, but are similarly brain damaged.
It's the war on general-purpose computing. From at least two fronts.