Comment by 2malaq
5 years ago
Yes, the good old Don't Be Evil days. I've asked so many people if they can remember Google's old slogan. Nobody does.
5 years ago
Yes, the good old Don't Be Evil days. I've asked so many people if they can remember Google's old slogan. Nobody does.
Their new slogan is hilarious. It's not even one slogan, it's three:
* Respect the user
* Respect the opportunity
* Respect each other
The first one is obviously a joke, because nothing says "respect the user" like canceling a beloved service with millions of users, or "updating" the product while losing half the features.
The last one makes you wonder why they had to put it into a slogan. Isn't it the baseline expectation? It's somewhere on the level of "Don't steal your colleague's belongings" as far as slogans go.
But it's the second one that is absolutely the best, and by that, I mean the worst. Orwell would've had a lot to say about it. The thing is, it has absolutely no meaning in the English language. What's next? Say hi to agility? Don't offend capital gains? Console excellence?
Of course, it doesn't really matter. The whole thing has a mafia vibe, as Google's slogans and culture are drifting towards loyalty rather than standing up for what's right.
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If you want to have more fun, look at Google's Community Guidelines[1]
Compare to The Mafia Code:
* Be loyal to members of the organization. Do not interfere with each other's interest. Do not be an informer.
--[Google: Treat our data with care. Don't disseminate NTK information.]
* Be rational. Be a member of the team. Don't engage in battle if you can't win.
--[Google: follow Three Values, in particular: Respect the opportunity.]
* Be a man of honor. Respect womanhood and your elders. Don't rock the boat.
--[Google: Do your part to keep Google a safe, productive, and inclusive environment for everyone.]
* Be a stand-up guy. Keep your eyes and ears open and your mouth shut.
--[Google: Discussions that make other Googlers feel like they don't belong have no place here.]
* Have class. Be independent. Know your way around the world.
--[Google: You are responsible for your words and your reach.]
[1]https://about.google/community-guidelines/
> Respect the opportunity
Honestly, this reads like a Rule of Acquisition. I think Google may be run by Ferengi at this point.
I would legit watch a Star Trek franchise that had the Ferengi running Big Tech.
It's supposedly about respecting the opportunity Googlers have to work at a big company with resources to change the industry. Like, I get it, but tone deaf...
2 replies →
A very apt comparison.
> Compare to The Mafia Code:
Including that doesn't help your argument much. And apart from "do not be an informer" and "don't rock the boat" the mafia code is pretty much unarguably good advice. Employees should be following it.
We'd all be better off if everyone was rational, honourable, independent and classy.
I thought my point was obvious, but no, it's HN and I have to spell out everything explicitly.
The Mafia Code isn't bad because it has bad stuff.
The Mafia Code is bad because it doesn't prohibit awful stuff.
The Mafia Code says nothing about being not evil, or, for that matter, not killing your enemies, not extorting non-mafia people, and so on.
It's all about being loyal to, and protecting the interests of the Family.
Which is what Google aims to be - one big family, which will take care of all your needs, as long as you follow the code.
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Respect the opportunity is double speak for 'we only bother if we can get to a position where we can use monopoly pricing and tactics'. It goes against 'respect the user'. Orwell is the right thing to invoke, Google thinks they are our big brother.
TIL the Mafia has a pretty decent, humane code of conduct.
Hypothesis: the internal operations of any sufficiently large organized crime group become indistinguishable from those of a corporation.
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The Mafia /g has teams that all do the same thing. Google has teams doing different things: here, in one corner, a team makes something benign or maybe even positive, over there, other "googlers" are doing suspect things, like putting together the [AI] surveillance infrastructure. They are all "googlers" but only some used to have TSCs. So "respect each other".
Now as far as "the user", well the joke is apparently on GP, as everybody and their dog knows that 'on the internet, if the product is free, you are the product and not the user!'. Even dogs on internet know this, but alas, HN has forgotten. So, "respect the user" means respect the folks who are paying us to track everybody and their dog on the internet.
Respect "the opportunity". Translation: This is a "Golden Time' for the few to lord it over the many! So the respect the user, and respect each other, and the rest should be grateful for having 'the permission' to use our platform.
Hope this helps.
> TIL the Mafia has a pretty decent, humane code of conduct.
Towards other Mafia people.
Which is a key point. People who aren't in the Family have different opinions of people on the other side of the tommy gun barrel and its humane usage.
It's a nothing code. It's so vague it's a rorschach blot - it's whatever you want it to be.
The OR ELSE part or 'moderation procedures' probably didn't need to be written down.
A good slogan should have an inverse that is also a plausible slogan. E.g. "move fast and break things."
Neither Google's new nor its old slogans are good according to this criterion.
> A good slogan should have an inverse that is also a plausible slogan.
Citation needed. This seems like an arbitrary criterion to me.
"Do not be evil" was a good slogan.
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I don't know, that clarifies a lot to me.
From the perspective of an AI moderation system, all you have to do to be perfectly internally consistent is to ban all accounts that raise any flags.
Friend Computer sees no Conflict if one is no longer a Citizen, because being in Conflict with the Computer is Treason.
> The first one is obviously a joke, because nothing says "respect the user" like canceling a beloved service with millions of users, or "updating" the product while losing half the features.
But most of all, the user is still the product.
Unless by user they mean "the advertiser".
I can't seem to find many of your examples in the community guidelines
Well, the Mafia code isn't in the community guidelines yet.
The rest is literally copy-pasted, Ctrl+F is your friend.
This is hilarious. So obvious that it was written by a non programmer. Since the "respect the" part repeats 3 times.
Also no programmer had anything to say how bad it is. In a software company...
Don't Be Evil is so stupid. It's like Disneyworld having the slogan "we won't kill your kids".
I disagree. "Evil" is a subtle point.
For example, Google got a lot of flack for literally tracking its users' every move whether or not they consent to do so[1].
Is it "respectful"? Is that "the right thing"? You can justify everything by the value that Google provides.
But it's, you know... kind of evil.
Sadly, this not something one could refer to anymore in a meeting discussing this issue.
[1]https://apnews.com/article/828aefab64d4411bac257a07c1af0ecb
It was a funny cute thing when they came up with it cause they were a landmark company built on the web, breaking new grounds in terms of how businesses will be run in the future, sticking it to the establishment, etc etc etc
Now they are the establishment. Their power and influence is on par with the US government, so it's an expectation that they should actually not be evil. But they fail at that in the most basic ways and they're not held accountable for it because "they're a private company, they can do what they want!"
Except when a theme park ride malfunctions, maims and kills most of a family in a gruesome fashion. Of course then you cannot sue because you've agreed/signed an arbitration clause in the terms of service.