Comment by lotusmars
5 years ago
I don’t care whether it was antitrust decision by (kangooroo) courts or not. As a Russian, I don’t want to use Yandex in any capacity since it’s complicit with oppressive regime and gradually becomes part of it, sharing data and targeting citizen with surveillance. One of the reasons I used Apple is because it was relatively free of Russian state-sponsored spyware.
Trust me, I don't have a single illusion about Yandex or the government. Neither I say the solution was perfect (it's terrible and awkward like most regulations are). But I also don't have any illusions about any other company. Making it sound like Apple is cooperating with some nefarious plot is a stretch. They've been forced to back down in a fairly clear case. Dealing with Yandex own business ambitions or the government spyware or regulatory overreach are entirely different questions that are out of the scope of this case and should be solved in their specific ways.
The difference between giving data to Apple or Yandex/Mail.ru for Russians is this:
Apple will help advertisers and spammers target you.
Russian corporations will help thugs, racketeers and corrupt police target you and government will sell your data on the black market.
So no, it’s a question of personal security, not of simple annoyance.
I would much prefered if Apple left Russian market and we had to import iPhones via backchannels. That’s how bad privacy situation here is.
There is no nefarious plot. Apple just gave us and our data to criminals to keep small insignificant market.
Can't you still import an American iPhone through a back channel without all the Russian government garbage?
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> Apple will help advertisers and spammers target you.
What are you talking about?
Apple are generally known for doing the opposite.
American corporations also help thugs, racketeers, and police target you. Did you not recently see the scandal with police and repo agents (and anyone else willing witu the money) paying for location data of users?
Besides, can you not simply uninstall or not use Yandex or Mail.ru?
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The difference is a fantasy at least in the US. Your online activity even if protected by the company and not sold on the open market is subject to the subpoena powers of the state. These powers apply to all "business records" and have been contorted to serve as a justification of mass surveillance.
This illustrates the how governments are using tech companies to do their dirty work. They are the velvet glove over the iron hand of the state. They conceal and enable that which would otherwise be an obvious authoritarian grab prevented by civil liberties providing a convenient fig leaf over over otherwise naked government power.
I would expect this to be the case in all jurisdictions these companies operate in.
> Russian corporations will help thugs, racketeers and corrupt police target you and government will sell your data on the black market.
There's so many feelings in this statement, but so little substance.
> I used Apple is because it was relatively free of Russian state-sponsored spyware.
You may search for "icloud servers Russia", it is likely the same deal as with China, people's iCloud data accessible by state agencies.
What I'm curious about, is how it applies to people with dual citizenship, living in another country for decades?
There is a difference between this and VK (owned by Mail.ru) basically having a web interface for police or anyone with money to read your messages.
You can bring a lot of “Apple is just as bad” outsider evidence, but I don’t know anyone who had their data leaked by Apple.
Yet I have dozens of anecdotal cases of people harrassed and targeted by using Russian networks. I mean you can basically buy my phone call history and parking surveillance for a few bucks online.
> There is a difference between this and VK (owned by Mail.ru) basically having a web interface for police or anyone with money to read your messages.
The only difference is that while US law enforcement can read Facebook messages, it has no interest in Ivan from Samara. But have no illusion: every government wants as much access to data as it can, and will use it against you.
> Yet I have dozens of anecdotal cases
Still anecdotal.
As a Russian, I'm using Yandex from time to time and see it no better or worse than FAANG. Keep in mind that parent doesn't speak for everyone.
As an American, I use Yandex image search for any sort of 'edgy' meme that I want to find again - Google image search has been filtering anything that might offend.
I use Yandex for reverse image search. Please never ruin that.
You can delete and not use the yandex software in this case right? It seems more like govt mandated but removable crapware added more for protectionist reasons than spying reasons in this case.
From what i've heard(I am not russian but merely from EE), it doesn't really matter, because as soon as you start to use that hardware/device, "Putin knows" where&what. So the argument doesn't stand.The spyware being removable is "good enough" only if you don't care that the government already knows your IMEI, location,and every other data by the time you get to delete the crapware.
This anti-trust cat & mouse game is really getting old.The device should not have any pre-installed apps choosing one side or the other(the opposite would be to provide all alternatives, which is virtually impossible). In the case 'critical' apps are necessary for the user to do basic operations, the software preinstalled should be entirely FOSS.I fail to see a better alternative than this.
As a Russian you could try to change your government. I don't really understand what people want here. Companies to ignore the laws made by sovereign governments? That's cyberpunk stuff.
Some companies are bigger than many sovereign countries, just saying
> I don’t want to use Yandex in any capacity since it’s complicit with oppressive regime and gradually becomes part of it, sharing data and targeting citizen with surveillance
Really? So the USA and it’s allies don’t spy, and aren’t oppressive? What do you do with the information revealed by Snowden (about the NSA and Prism), Assange, and with the Crypto AG story?
I’m curious if you see those those things as less severe than Russia’s oppression/corruption?
>those things as less severe than Russia’s oppression/corruption?
These things are vastly less severe than anything going on in Russia (am Russian). In the US there is at least due process, public scrutiny, and the US government doesn't generally torture or murder its citizens(on its soil). Comparing the situations in these two countries is like comparing current protest killings in Myanmar, and police shootings in the US with the words "see, in the US the police also kill citizens", i.e. it's dropping 99% of the context and of the cultural situation/differences/beliefs.
You’re absolutely delusional about modern day USA. And if you think that being tortured by USA on some other soil is better, well, sucks to be you.
American's idea that their country is a bastion of due process is really a fallacy.
America regularly assassinates people it finds unsavoury without any consideration for due process whatsoever.
Speaking first and foremost about actions against its own people, none of the (real and troublesome) activities of the US government are in the same league as what the oppressive authoritarian Russian state is doing. The comparison is insulting (to the intelligence of the reader, first and foremost).
Yandex cooperates with the Russian state, which sends people to (horrendous, torturous) prisons for, among other things, reposting a meme critical of its hard line of oppressing LGBT people. It assassinates domestic political opponents. It snoops on, disrupts and if necessary curtails any serious efforts at political organizing. No comparison can be made with the US government.
The US government sends people to prison for owning the wrong plant or the wrong type of lobster. It assassinates political opponents - definitely foreign, likely domestic. It snoops on, disrupts and if necessary curtails any serious efforts at political organizing (they actually called Zuckerberg in front of Congress because Facebook was not censoring enough people! Facebook! That was freaking mind-blowing.)
Yep, the difference is amazing.
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