Comment by realusername
4 years ago
> It's not besides the point, it's important whether there's no competition because Apple crushed them unfairly in an anti-trust kind of way, or because all other competitors are completely and utterly incompetent.
There's network effects on mobile platforms, you could not make a new one even if you had 500 billion you could spend on it. The existing actors just prevent you to create a new one.
> But I do like iOS. And I don't want you smashing iOS because you don't like it
I don't like monopolies, I couldn't care less about the iOS interface. There's blatant market issues in the tech industry that need to be solved.
> What's wrong with the Pinephone or Librem5 or all the other non-Apple non-Google phones? Why are you "screwed"? They can't compete because making a cutting edge device is hard and expensive.
They have negligible market size and thus do not have an influence on the the mobile app market, that's not even an argument.
> Yes, this sounds exactly what I expect, not techno-freedom-utopia but unregulated scamland
You're missing the point completely, in a market with competition, you are supposed to act and react according to the competition, the only change Apple ever did was because of a real threat of antitrust lawsuit... That's basically admission.
> That sounds awesome, imagine the freedom to install apps from sources of your choosing, like sideloading ... hang on "and by April 2020, Epic discontinued the sideloaded version and placed the game on the Google Play store". Oh I guess he didn't really believe his own story at all, and wanted to benefit from Google's better reptuation and filtering on the Play store, while arguing that it shouldn't exist?
No, that just tells you that even the most popular game in the world could not make it outside the play store. That tells you that Google's claim that "you can sideload anyways" are just complete BS and that's hard proof that the restrictions they've put in place to make that option not suitable are working.
Additionally Google has prevented manufacturers to pre-install the Epic Store by using threats.
> "There's network effects on mobile platforms, you could not make a new one even if you had 500 billion you could spend on it. The existing actors just prevent you to create a new one."
First it's network effects, then it's the existing actors preventing you. Make your mind up.
> "I don't like monopolies, I couldn't care less about the iOS interface."
Then use a Pinephone. That nobody else you know uses it, and nobody develops for it isn't Apple's fault. Apple's 30% appstore cut isn't bringing people from Pinephone to iOS, if anything it should be pushing the other way. I know they have negligible market size - the point is Apple iOS has big market size by being good and your plan to respond to this is to make it bad from sour grapes.
> "You're missing the point completely, in a market with competition, you are supposed to act and react according to the competition, the only change Apple ever did was because of a real threat of antitrust lawsuit... That's basically admission."
Fortnite was not competing with Apple though? Epic gave people a way to buy Fortnite on Steam, and then a way to install Fortnite free on Android, and people didn't want that. So Epic came after Apple and blamed them, irrelevantly, and the judge was leaning to Apple's side.
> "No, that just tells you that even the most popular game in the world could not make it outside the play store."
That just tells you that app stores are doing something people really really really want.
> "That tells you that Google's claim that "you can sideload anyways" are just complete BS"
Except you can sideload anyways, as evidenced by the fact that you can. What it tells you is that /people don't want to/.
> First it's network effects, then it's the existing actors preventing you. Make your mind up.
That's two sides of the same coin.
> Then use a Pinephone. That nobody else you know uses it, and nobody develops for it isn't Apple's fault. Apple's 30% appstore cut isn't bringing people from Pinephone to iOS, if anything it should be pushing the other way. I know they have negligible market size - the point is Apple iOS has big market size by being good and your plan to respond to this is to make it bad from sour grapes.
I'm talking about the mobile app market, maybe one day the Pinephone will have enough market share to be considered a competitor, right now it does not so you can't count it.
> Fortnite was not competing with Apple though? Epic gave people a way to buy Fortnite on Steam, and then a way to install Fortnite free on Android, and people didn't want that. So Epic came after Apple and blamed them, irrelevantly, and the judge was leaning to Apple's side.
Fortnite suffered from the duopoly and the app market failure.
> Except you can sideload anyways, as evidenced by the fact that you can. What it tells you is that /people don't want to/.
No, it tells you that the restrictions Google put in place so that users don't sideload (the developer menu being hard to access, scary warnings and the difficulty of update your app) are enough to keep out even the most popular game in the world to use that option.
I’ll just say this one last time. You keep making the argument “for the benefit of developers”. If you want to win me and people like me, Apple’s customers, you need to start making arguments “for the benefit of customers”.
You want Apple to change? Change the hearts and minds of the people who like Apple’s products and pay Apple.
Statements like “the history of the mobile phone market doesn’t matter” or “I don’t care if the iOS interface is any good” or (paraphrased) “I don’t care why customers choose Apple” will just cause you to alienate the people you need on your side.
For your own sake, please find a better argument rather than repeating yourself.
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