Comment by hprotagonist
4 years ago
> Perhaps heed the warnings?
And then take what actions, exactly? “Guys this is trouble” is …fine, but without “and we should therefore do”, it’s just kind of spitting into the wind.
4 years ago
> Perhaps heed the warnings?
And then take what actions, exactly? “Guys this is trouble” is …fine, but without “and we should therefore do”, it’s just kind of spitting into the wind.
The warning: "Don't buy Apple products, their locked down hardware and walled garden is going to be trouble"
People: Ignore warning, buy iPhone
You: "Don't buy Apple products" isn't an action.
The alternative is?
Google phone? This is not an alternative if you care about privacy.
The allegory presented sounds insane (growing your own food) but honestly if you're not rolling your own flashed ROM on a 'droid then your privacy is dead already;
I understand throwing all your eggs in one basket is a terrible idea but Apples walled garden and heavy sandboxing was at least somewhat protective.
One option is getting a Phone that has an unlocked bootloader so one can load their own ROM without Goople Play Services. I have a Pixel 3a with LineageOS, no Google Play. I'm pretty happy with it.
While the Pinephone isn't perfect yet, I would argue it will be able to replace Android/iOS in a few months.
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Buying a different phone or even forgoing a feature phone entirely are both valid alternatives. Just because the alternatives are unappealing doesn't make "There are no alternatives" or "The warning wasn't actionable" into true statements.
Alternative is crowdfunding to create something like Pinephone, etc.
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> Don't buy Apple products...
What is the follow-on? Which products should we buy then? Any phone other than Apple's? None?
Yes! Buying a different phone or even forgoing a feature phone are both valid alternatives. Just because the alternatives are unappealing doesn't mean "There are no alternatives" or "The warning wasn't actionable" into true statements.
The first ( and only ) way to solve any problem is to first admit it is a problem.
It doesn't even need to be an "action". You will have to be at least conscious of what is happening.
That is not what is happening, right now ( or before that ) many are defending Apple, and also an attitude of not "my problem". Writing off any warning as either pessimistic or conspiracy. Having some healthy dose of skepticism is somewhat an unpopular view in modern day society. Especially in Tech and America.
An action could and will be taken once enough people are conscious of what is happening. Right now the scale and critical mass just isn't there (yet).
Yeah I think a lot of us are conscious of the problem but you're right, the scale/critical mass isn't quite there yet hmm.
BTW I think one of the roots of our problem is that we seem to end up in these really weird "winner take all" distributions with only 2-3 main winners and rarely any serious alternatives. It happens with operating systems, browsers, it also happens within programming language communities, like Javascript, etc. Everybody piles up into one of the 2-3 most popular framework options (React, etc). Same thing for Linux distributions. etc.
It would be nice if we could figure out some sort of nudge or hack that would reduce this tendency and encourage more distribution of mass.
Well that's because the more people use the thing, the easier it is to find solutions for issues with said thing. Looking up a way to do routing in react is way easier than looking it up for a framework with a 100 users.
Issues are also being found way faster simply due to a bigger user base.
> And then take what actions, exactly?
Don’t buy or use their products.
And perhaps more importantly: don't develop for their products.
but... but the app revenue from all the same iSheeple who are given up their privacy...
Unrealistic. My non-tech family and friends don’t care about this, and I can’t make them care. They don’t understand why it’s a problem; they agree with the motive and don’t understand that it’s not actually a solvable problem. It’s not totally dissimilar to the crypto backdoor problem. Normies think it’s great for only the feds to break encryption. Doesn’t work that way, but you can’t explain why to someone who doesn’t want to know.
The only progress for things like this comes at the political level, through pressure on politicians or corporations. That’s where you should be spending effort if this sort of thing matters to you.
A few Linux nerds buying some fantasy spook-free glibertarian phone will not make a dent in the problem.
I have a different experience. My normie family and friends don't want a private company to access private media at all. Tech-illiteracy is no question of education and intelligence. This is a topic that is comparable to home searches.
Still good to keep up the pressure on public officials. That any interior minister is very happy about that doesn't have to be excused. Anyone else should be more like French people.
Perhaps as I stated it, yeah it seems unrealistic.
However I do think there’s value in gentle, consistent evangelism of privacy in ways that don’t make people feel bad. Most folks actually don’t want their deeply private stuff to be accessible. I’ve found that there are good analogies and ways to think about it that folks can get on board with and start caring to some extent.
I absolutely agree that political progress is the ultimate solution. I think the only way that will happen is if enough people demand it.
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