Comment by willis936
4 years ago
>Apple controls the software that runs on it but there is nothing that stops you from modifying or hacking it to your heart's content
Nothing except all of Apple's attempts to make that difficult and a bad op sec decision. Oh and let's not forget the series of lawsuits attempting to make jailbreaking considered illegal. Luckily they failed there, but if they could make modifying their software illegal make no doubt that they would.
They don't own the hardware they sell you in the same way a landlord owns a home because they have transferred all physical equity to the purchaser. However, Apple's model really stretches the definition of "ownership". Would you say you own a adobe acrobat because you paid for it, or would you say you own a license to use it? Buying Apple means you own the hardware and license the software that makes that hardware be anything other than a paperweight. It's not a very attractive idea. Kudos to their marketing department.
> Nothing except all of Apple's attempts to make that difficult and a bad op sec decision.
No one said it had to be easy or advisable.
> Would you say you own a adobe acrobat because you paid for it, or would you say you own a license to use it?
Any software that I run that I didn't write myself is subject to the license of the people who wrote it defined it to be. Even the MIT License places requirements on you for you to be allowed to use the software. Exceptions to these copyright protections have been made which extends to jailbreaking iOS devices, which requires modifying copyrighted code.
> Buying Apple means you own the hardware and license the software that makes that hardware be anything other than a paperweight.
All hardware is paperweight without software.
> No one said it had to be easy or advisable.
Now you're making a pedantic point about a technicality instead of what's happening in real life.
> Any software that I run that I didn't write myself is subject to the license of the people who wrote it defined it to be. Even the MIT License places requirements on you for you to be allowed to use the software. Exceptions to these copyright protections have been made which extends to jailbreaking iOS devices, which requires modifying copyrighted code.
The MIT license doesn't require you to allow anyone else to scan your private data and doesn't allow the licensor to change the terms after you've already started using the software.
> All hardware is paperweight without software.
If you buy a Dell and you don't like the Dell crapware, you can remove it and the device still works just as well (if not better). If it came with Microsoft Windows and you don't like the Windows license, you can install Linux or OpenBSD. The hardware is still useful even if you don't like the license for the software it came with.
If you don't like Apple's software licensing terms, your iPhone is a paperweight.
> Now you're making a pedantic point about a technicality instead of what's happening in real life.
In real life people are looking for escalation of privilege exploits that enable them to exploit iOS to allow for installation of arbitrary software on it. This is what jailbreaking is.
> The MIT license doesn't require you to allow anyone else to scan your private data and doesn't allow the licensor to change the terms after you've already started using the software.
At what point did I ever state any of this or even imply this? I am simply stating that licenses affect all the software we run and places restrictions from the creators of said software on the users of it. This has nothing to do with Apple surveilling its users with its new tech.
> If you buy a Dell and you don't like the Dell crapware, you can remove it and the device still works just as well (if not better). If it came with Microsoft Windows and you don't like the Windows license, you can install Linux or OpenBSD. The hardware is still useful even if you don't like the license for the software it came with.
Hypothetically it is possible to run whatever software you want on an iPhone, including installing another OS. In reality this translates to people are jailbreaking devices. As has been mentioned, people are allowed to hack their own iPhones and it's protected by DMCA exemptions.
But if you're going to accuse me of being pedantic about technicalities instead of real life, how about this: In real life almost no one gives a shit about running arbitrary code on their devices and just use it to get access to the applications that are readily available in official app stores.
> If you don't like Apple's software licensing terms, your iPhone is a paperweight.
You can dislike their software licensing terms and still use your iPhone. I dislike the things that Apple is proposing with regards to CSAM detection but that doesn't mean I can't use my phone.
1 reply →
>All hardware is paperweight without software.
You miss the point. I can buy an x86 machine and run Windows or a FOSS OS or any number of unix clones or hell even write my own OS. From the outset I can say I own the hardware.
You can't say the same for Apple hardware. Even if the act of jailbreaking as a specific case is not considered illegal, you have to do many illegal things if you want to pwn an Apple device enough to run another OS on it.
> You miss the point. I can buy an x86 machine and run Windows or a FOSS OS or any number of unix clones or hell even write my own OS. From the outset I can say I own the hardware.
You are more than welcome to use an x86 machine as your cell phone, but I don't think most people would choose to. If we're talking about comparable hardware, even m1 macs allow you to run alternative operating systems [1] on it so this isn't a valid point.
You could write your own OS on an desktop computer and it'd be a significantly easier process than doing so for an iPhone which has a locked bootloader, but that doesn't mean that you can't. Just that it's tremendously difficult and low value proposition. Privilege escalation on a jailbroken iPhone is typically about as much as people want. Why would they buy an iPhone over a device with an unlocked bootloader otherwise?
> You can't say the same for Apple hardware. Even if the act of jailbreaking as a specific case is not considered illegal, you have to do many illegal things if you want to pwn an Apple device enough to run another OS on it.
What laws do I have to break to pwn an Apple device enough to run another OS on it? Jailbreaking [2] is protected by a DMCA exception.
[1] https://asahilinux.org/
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jailbreaking_(iOS)#United_Stat...
> you have to do many illegal things if you want to pwn an Apple device enough to run another OS on it.
Can’t think of a single one, elaborate please?