Comment by DaiPlusPlus
4 years ago
> I also like the idea that the media doesn't contain a computer that could be programmed to do something nefarious that you don't expect.
It's entirely possible for a floppy-disk to be an attack-vector.
After all, viruses were a thing in DOS days and they spread via floppy disks: https://www.trendmicro.com/vinfo/us/security/definition/boot...
But a modern Trojan-horse style computer-hidden-inside-an-innocuous-looking-peripheral in a floppy disk should be possible, considering what Sony fit into a floppy-disk's dimensions back in 2000: http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Sony_Mavica_FD95
>> I also like the idea that the media doesn't contain a computer that could be programmed to do something nefarious that you don't expect.
> It's entirely possible for a floppy-disk to be an attack-vector.
Yeah, but media with embedded computers adds more vectors on top of those that exist in dumb media. I'm not claiming that dumb media is absolutely secure, just that it has fewer attack vectors.
> But a modern Trojan-horse style computer-hidden-inside-an-innocuous-looking-peripheral in a floppy disk should be possible, considering what Sony fit into a floppy-disk's dimensions back in 2000: http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Sony_Mavica_FD95
That's a novelty, though. I've never seen one of those, but that particular example could never be confused for a regular floppy disk, and I'm skeptical that a similar device that could be confused would even be possible to build.
Floppies are super light. To sneak a CPU into one would require power (which would not be provided directly by the drive), storage electronics, and something to interface magnetically with the heads. I think all that (especially the power and interface) would likely be noticeably heavier. I've had something might had some of the components (https://www.macrumors.com/2017/02/01/coin-shutdown-services-...), but I doubt the magnetic interface was sufficient for a trojan floppy.
But even if you could get the weight and balance right, inspecting whatever under the shutter would be a dead giveaway. And transparent floppies were a thing (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Transparent_floppy_d...) and using those would make it even harder to sneak electronics on board.
So... how would you get anything into the system that way that you couldn't get in via an actually recorded floppy? You're still waving analog magnetic fields in front of the read head, it's not like usb or firewire where you have inappropriate levels of access to the system bus...
> So... how would you get anything into the system that way that you couldn't get in via an actually recorded floppy?
One thing I can think of is people have done tricks with programmable storage like changing file contents after the first read (to bypass scanning). The link I posted above lists that as "7) RIT attack via USB mass storage - attack described in a research paper. It relies on changing the content of files while the USB mass storage device is connected to a victim's computer."
> it's not like usb or firewire where you have inappropriate levels of access to the system bus...
That's a good point. The main benefit of dumb media isn't so much that the storage is dumb, but that it connects to a far more restricted and inflexible interface. Though lacking a CPU does provide a smaller benefit (i.e. preventing that "RIT attack").
Put a generator on the hub to get power from. Then a readwrite head instead of media. The head is the hard part, you need to make it thin.
It should be possible, but I don't have the electronics to attempt it. Nor do I have the time.