Comment by Jensson
5 years ago
> Too many people are extremely static in their assessment of their skills. They make overarching claims like "oh I'm just not good at cooking" or "I just can't type very fast", when they can remedy these issues with practice.
The people with the biggest blockers are those who argue along the lines of "learning skill X isn't even important, no learning skill X actually makes you worse!". That is the perspective so many here takes on becoming faster at programming. They actually argue that practicing being fast will actually make you worse at your job! Such people will never improve, they are stuck where they are forever.
No one argued against that. We argue that the value proposition is dependent on defeating the other. I prefer not to because, how many others will I race against in life? The indefinite race is unfulfilling. More commonly, we call this the rat race.
I’ve beaten people in the race, and have been beaten myself. My career as a perpetual online matchmaking ranked game is … in so many words, not what I want.
To be forever racing, in age, under duress, or worse, needlessly, villages are not built this way.
Agile pits people against each other in an ultimate form of relativism. The constant question is ‘what did you do yesterday’, every single day. Hey, I did what I could, with the constant retort being ‘oh, but the other did this’, it’s gladiators. Forever stuck in the coliseum. And there will always be the other.
They use the simplest shittiest psychological tactic.
I think the rat-race idea got baked deep into SV largely because of the setup of the post-1970 economy, and specifically California's rules: every startup had to be "fast" and "hit the ground running" not just because of literal business pressures, but because implicitly, everyone intends to exit and move on to the next thing immediately, so a slow-moving part-time effort would be a no-go. That derived just from mundane realities about the market, legal and financial environment, and protections afforded towards workers and businesses - everyone knows that we moved in the direction of corporations squeezing the workforce because they "couldn't afford" to build them up. Therefore career mindsets filtered to accommodate only those with the gold rush viewpoint, because the only way to win that game was to strike it rich and retire.
I’m fascinated by who is downvoting you without an explanation.
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I wish I could identify a finite set of tasks at which to practice and get much faster. The tradeoff between getting faster at one thing and learning a new thing that could potentially improve my productivity even more is never really clear to me. Someone can have perfected their craft in X and then something better comes along and replaces the whole paradigm.
Your question: There is no finite set. There is no end to it. This is a process. You do it over and over. You don‘t invest into a set and be done with it (and likely over-invested in some). One step at a time. And once in a while reevaluate the territory.
I offer nothing definitive, but one of the greatest benefits of StackOverflow has been to quantifiably classify most of the common problems in computer science, programming, analytics (and to a lesser extent the other StackExchange communities ...)
If you go there, search for a tag, sort by popularity, etc. - most of those techniques and approaches and patterns are, if not timeless, then mostly timeless and relevant.
Master the basic building blocks of programming. Frameworks comes and go but the basics are the same. Master as in "I do X correct the first time even without thinking" not "I know how X works". The "do without thinking" is when your subconscious is doing it for you so your conscious doesn't have to. You want to put as much as your work there as possible, it is like putting work on a GPU instead of your CPU, so every reusable programming trick and pattern should be there. This also helps you reason about code since now your sub consciousness can build code on its own and therefore help you reason in much larger chunks.
A person who hasn't mastered loops and conditionals will fail FizzBuzz. That is bad, you recognise that I hope. But it doesn't end there, you can master so many more powerful parts of programming and get as fast as you were at FizzBuzz att many other much more complicated tasks as well. Ultimately programming takes time due to all the parts you didn't master, but when you have mastered enough parts then you can fit just about any problem into parts you have mastered and code them up extremely quickly.
So the speedup you see is roughly the speedup you saw from at first struggling a lot with loops and conditionals early on when learning programming, to today when you do them effortlessly and instantly. Now the other things to master aren't as simple patterns as loops or conditionals, but the end result is the same improvement in speedup and effort.
For example, competitive programming is about mastering a ton of such chunks. You don't memorize solutions to get fast, you master thousands of such chunks and compose them to solve problems in 5 minutes that would take regular programmers 5 hours if they can solve it at all. I went that route and it is similar to how people master chess, a grandmaster makes better moves after a few seconds of thinking than a typical chess player who has played for years thinking for many minutes.
It took about a year and then I could solve hard problems at similar pace as the best in the world with basically no errors, compare that with spending 4 years in college, I think the practice is worth it, I have never needed to practice that again as the chunks I mastered doesn't go away, it is like learning how to ride a bike. You forget the details, but your subconscious wont forget those chunks. Of course I can't solve hard competitive programming problems in 5 minutes today, but I can solve most leetcode "hard" problems I haven't seen before in under 15 minutes and basically all of them in under 30 even though I haven't practiced these things for many years.
Now, this wont solve all your programming woes, you still need to understand requirements, talk to customers, learn API's etc. But at least you are no longer bottle necked by composing programs. Instead you can throw together MVP's quickly, show prototypes to make discussions more fruitful etc. Also most jobs doesn't requires this level of mastery, only do it if you aim to join top teams using your technical skills if you really get good at this then many teams that wouldn't care about you before now gets very interested in you since so few are this fast, or if you want to build your own products on your own, or if you find mastering things fun.
Edit: Sorry for edits, but here is last bit. When I worked at a high performing team at Google I averaged over 500 lines of code a day going through code review and running in production when I wasn't constrained on non-programming bits like understanding the problem etc. To do that you write 10 changes, each about 50 lines and trivial to review since everything is super clean, otherwise you can't get through code reviews fast enough. Code reviews, unit tests, fixing edge cases etc, none of that are excuses for being slow. Now it is still fine to be slow, I don't blame people, I'm just saying it is possible to be fast if you deliberately practice a lot to be fast.
> To do that you write 10 changes, each about 50 lines and trivial to review since everything is super clean, otherwise you can't get through code reviews fast enough
No matter how small or clean the PRs were, I'm pretty sure I couldn't get reviews for 10 in one day.
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What are the 'chunks' of competitive programming? Like knowing how to make a graph, use hash tables / arrays well, a typical dynamic programming solution and so on?
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I feel the same way, but I also think that in all of the time I've spent thinking about it, I could have learned a bit of Vim or better typing, or something.
There is only a limited amount of time in life. It matters on what you spend it. Given that the way programming in industry is done is generally fucked up, working super hard at becoming super fast at doing that brand of programming can be a waste of time. Of course that depends on what your goals are.
Interesting POV. Can you elaborate on an alternative to the way of industry programming? Or more simply, list some of the ways in which industry brand programming is flawed?
Not the poster, but IMO we are craftspeople being made to work like assembly line workers.
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For starters, even super big companies like Apple don't have any formal semantics for their APIs.
Of course there is a reason for that, it is just too hard with current tools for formal mathematics to achieve anything of the scale Apple needs.
So what will you spend your time on? Learn how to super fast crank out SwiftUI apps? Or solve the problem of doing formal mathematics properly so that companies can actually use it?
SwiftUI is pretty buggy still, by the way. Given that Apple controls its entire stack, why is that? Exactly, because they are following industry best practices, which are just not very good. Becoming super productive under these circumstances just means digging yourself deep into a local optimum that is not very good globally.
Yes, it is a common psychological defense. Rather than suffer the pain of inadequacy one either decries the whole idea of merit as meaningless/harmful or adds enough mushiness to the ranking method as to render it useless. Either way your envy subsides and you can back to living a professional life of un-examined mediocrity.