Comment by FabHK
4 years ago
a) That's not the last paragraph, but the antepenultimate.
b) As far as I can tell, Gilmore was not trying to censor anyone. It seems more like the EFF has put Gilmore on the other side of their firewall.
4 years ago
a) That's not the last paragraph, but the antepenultimate.
b) As far as I can tell, Gilmore was not trying to censor anyone. It seems more like the EFF has put Gilmore on the other side of their firewall.
The reading I take is that Gilmore opposed censorship, and presumably was impeding actions of the EFF which might be interpreted as same, effectively exercising power through veto (see Francis Fukuyama's concept of a "vetocracy", and note that I'm not familiar enough with EFF's governance to know specifically what veto or obstruction powers exist).
The irony is that the EFF routed around Gilmore's presumed obstruction.
For the record, I'm increasingly of the view that free-speech absolutism is very badly flawed. If my reading of the situation is correct, then I'd agree with the action. That said, I'm as much in the dark as anyone whose information is the Register piece itself, so don't read too much into what I'm saying.
Why do you think free speech absolutism is very badly flawed?
For the same reason (virtually?) all absolutism is: it backs itself into a corner from which there is no escape. It discards any pragmatism or nuance.
What I'm evolving toward is a sense of interrelated, and often opposing, rights and obligations around communications.
Free expression, a right to truth, privacy in general, though some obligation for disclosure in public interest or concern, freedoms of and from association or expression, among others.
The benefit to this is that it gives a unified scope for looking at what have been a set of distinct and discrete rights. The disadvantage is that there's no simple or clear guidance, only trade-offs. Though (another benefit) at least those trade-offs are made clear, explicit, and the relationships are established.
I've found a few others thinking along similar lines, with some work out of the Berkman Klein Center (at Harvard) and UC Berkeley, the latter specifically addressing a right to the truth. I can dig up specific names if requested.
2 replies →
OF COURSE one of the most arrogant posters on the antepenultimate subthread is an anti-free-speech fucking goon. Fuck you.
Well I found my new favorite word of the week antepenultimate. Thanks FabHK.
Honest question: why use words like "antepenultimate" that are not in common use and don't convey any more meaning than a more common form (like third-last)?
Language, like programming skill or physical muscles, develops under use. Failure to extend beyond quotidian usage and trepidation over sesquipedalian terms will result in atrophy.
Someone probably learned a new word today here. Or was reminded of an unfamiliar one.
And yes, there's virtue as well in clarity. Sometimes that comes from precision.
Of course, like programming, there's also something to be said for adhering to readability guidelines. ;)
1 reply →
But it wasn't more precise.
Get a load of this retarded asshole.
Antepenultimate is actually in more common use than third last!
https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=antepenultimat...
Personally, I like fun words like that, much more than pretentious words like "access" and "empower." YMMV.
Good question. While I enjoy witty or even flamboyant writing, there is plenty of writing that is hard to understand on purpose, and I despise that (postmodern French philosophers come to mind). It seems here I've used a word that is less common and more distracting than I had thought (though it seems some people enjoyed it).
As a person who has English as a second language (not the only one on HN) I'm interested in what is your second language, and if you have the knowledge of so rare words in your second language.
We're here because the same sophisticated discussions in new technologies don't happen in our language. Please make what you write accessible to us as well.
Antepenultimate is perfectly clear while an uncommon phrase like “third-last” is ambiguous, prone to possible fence post error: is it the first of two before the final sentence or third from last (a reasonable interpretation in UK and Australia, at least) which would mean it would be followed by three sentences.
Maybe you grew up speaking a language where penultimate and antepenultimate's cognates are in common use, like Spanish.
I still remember hearing a Mexican friend whose English was, at the time, very basic use the word "polemical" and I could hardly believe it. I'm not sure most English speakers could use it correctly; I'm all but certain that I at the time couldn't.
Just look at the sibling replies to see how delightful this new word is to some other folks here!
Sometimes using a word outside the register [0] or literary style is just a way to include a nice lexical nugget.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Register_(sociolinguistics)
Because people are encouraged to look up and learn a new word!
Because adhering to a 6th grade vocabulary is tedious.
If people never used rare words or poetic turns of phrase, then communication would just be unbearably dull.
It's a class signifier. It informs readers that the person using the word is smart and therefore his opinion should be respected.
It's the same reason a doctor might use words like "etiology" instead of "cause".
Because we're not writing instruction manuals here.
After all, what justification is there for a word which is simply the opposite of some other word? A word contains its opposite in itself. Take ‘good’, for instance. If you have a word like ‘good’, what need is there for a word like ‘bad’? ‘Ungood’ will do just as well—better, because it’s an exact opposite, which the other is not. Or again, if you want a stronger version of ‘good’, what sense is there in having a whole string of vague useless words like ‘excellent’ and ‘splendid’ and all the rest of them? ‘Plusgood’ covers the meaning, or ‘doubleplusgood’ if you want something stronger still.
> After all, what justification is there for a word which is simply the opposite of some other word? A word contains its opposite in itself. Take ‘good’, for instance. If you have a word like ‘good’, what need is there for a word like ‘bad’? ‘Ungood’ will do just as well—better, because it’s an exact opposite, which the other is not.
Aside from the 1984 reference (which is appreciated), the fact is that hanging a negative prefix (or suffix) on an adjective doesn't actually capture the meaning of the antonym. Or if it is defined to be equivalent, then you're missing out on various useful shades of meaning. Consider the uses of the phrases 'not good', 'not very good', 'not bad', 'not too bad', etc.
For example, 'not good' often doesn't actually mean 'bad', it is (usually) closer in meaning to 'not good enough', or perhaps 'mediocre'. When 'not good' actually does mean 'bad' or even 'very bad' it is because the speaker is using understatement.
Orwell was trying to make a point about the totalization of language and constraining thinking to promote binary thinking (us/them, for/against, good/bad). But he failed to really account for human perversity, which would have immediately produced phrases in NewSpeak such as 'not ungood', 'un-doubleplus ungood', etc., not to mention the use of sarcasm, which in the UK can be so deadpan that it is undetectable unless you have a lot of context.
Oddly, while Orwell obviously understood both satire and parody, and employed both to great effect, sarcasm seems to have largely eluded him. His characters are nearly always earnest and sincere. A few are insincere, euphemistic, even mendacious, but I don't think many (or any?) are ever sarcastic. It's an odd omission.
It's for insecure assholes to feel a sense of superiority over anyone dumber than them. They think that if they've "learned" some new word, it means they're smarter than people who don't know this word, which means they're better. It's the obverse of the "might makes right" coin, but brains over brawn.
One asshole typed up you can look this up in a dictionary. He actually thinks everyone who has a problem with this method of communication must be too dumb to have figured out the meaning of the word on their own.
And that's the same kind of asshole who uses the word "utilize" anywhere and everywhere he can because it has two more syllables than "use." Completely insecure about his own intelligence and place in the world, his only recourse is to try to cut down other people by playing the "look at my vocabulary" game. These people never grew up. They still live in the old high school nerds vs. jocks tropes.
Dictionaries exist.
Anyone is welcome to look up words they don’t understand.
Go beat up some five-year-olds. You weak, candyass, pretentious faggot.
> antepenultimate
And I thought knowing what penultimate meant was fun. For those that don't know, penultimate means second to last and antepenultimate means third to last.
(There's also "preantepenultimate" if you ever want to say fourth to last without saying fourth to last...)
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/preantepenultimate
Now I'm curious if there's a word meaning 'having more syllables than the definition itself' because we crossed that barrier back at antepenultimate (and penultimate already is tied with 'second to last').
1 reply →
And apparently propreantepenultimate. Love this lol
1 reply →
This aversion to repetition has also engendered such words as quasihemidemisemiquaver—half half half half eighth note.
I have now discovered "preantepenultimate" and my world is a happier place with a bit of faith in humanity restored. Thank you for leading the way :)
Perhaps you'll also find joy in 'demisemihemidemisemiquaver' and friends!
Here, though, the quest for elegant variation must prematurely conclude at 'quasihemidemisemiquaver'.
I see why that would appear that way, but no... Music Theory, a.k.a. "Random disorganized thoughts of 18th century grouchy old white Austrians" is a place where logic and joy go to die!
Reading "A quarter note triplet consists of three-quarter notes over the same amount of time as two-quarter notes" causes Baby buddha Jesus-Mohammad to cry and kick puppies in frustration at where humanity has gotten.
So ... propreantepenultimate must have really tipped you over into ecstasy? :-)