Comment by trashtester
3 years ago
> deeper roots that the hyperinflation or some temporary unemployment.
Oh, and about this part, I think you underestimate the hyperinflation in 22-23 in Germany. Over a period of about 2-3 years, people who had been comfortably part of the upper middle class would lose EVERYTHING, and in many cases end up starving to death. That's not "temporary unemployment".
Read this quote:
- One particularly arresting story is that of Maximilian Bern, a man of literary education exemplary of Germany’s formerly middle-class Bildungsbürgertum. In 1923, writes Taylor
- "[he] withdrew all his savings—100,000 marks, formerly sufficient to support a modestly comfortable retirement—and purchased all it would buy by that time: a subway ticket. The old gentleman took a last ride around the city, then went back to his apartment and locked himself in."
- If you are like me, you probably assumed the next sentence would conclude with suicide. No. “There he died of hunger.” I had to linger over that sentence to fully grasp the reality: starvation in a society that had recently been among the most technologically and commercially advanced of any on earth.
https://fee.org/articles/how-hyperinflation-shattered-german...
For the Germans, this left an impression that resembled the Shoah for the jews.
Imagine seeing former affluent tech workers starving to death in San Francisco in 2029, looking like the corpses of Bergen-Belson prisoners. What would that do to the survivors?
They say that, of all causes of death, hunger is the most horrible.
> people who had been comfortably part of the upper middle class would lose EVERYTHING, and in many cases end up starving to death
The upper middle class own non-monetary assets, they are probably the least affected by inflation.
> For the Germans, this left an impression that resembled the Shoah for the jews.
No, not really and not even close. At least because the Weimar hyperinflation hasn’t caused mass starvation. Second because losing your savings is not even close to being stripped naked and beaten once a week and then being put on a cattle wagon to be slaughtered 1000 kilometres from home.
This subthread was not my main reply, just an aspect I had left out in the other reponse.
> The upper middle class own non-monetary assets, they are probably the least affected by inflation.
First of all, don't confuse hyperinflation with regular inflation. Regular inflation is an indication of a rebalancing of an economy, with some mismanagement on top. Hyperinflation happens when the economic system collapses completely.
One difference is that during normal inflation, non-monetary assets often retain much of their value, while in hyperinflation only assets that help produce food and other essentials really matter (such as owning a farm, a factory, etc).
Middle class workers pre-inflation may have a house, a "save" job with a fixed income and some savings in the bank. When hyperinflation struck, they may have been able to sell the house, but the cash gained would be gone in a couple of weeks. The savings were also gone quickly, and many such jobs would either have salaries lagging behind inflation or people might get fired, unable to find similar work.
Meanwhile, workers in factories and on farms were more like "essential workers" during covid.
>> .... this left an impression ....
> No, not really and not even close.
If you read what you quoted, I was not referring to the effects on those that died, only those who remained. In other words, I was comparing the effect on the German people with the SURVIVORS of the holocaust, as well as on jews that were not directly affected.
These effects are primarily cultural. To this day, the German nation remains fiscally conservative due to the events of 2022-23, very reluctant to allow inflationary actions by the ECB, for instance (as experienced by Greece, 10 years ago).
You are right, of course, that the Holocaust was a larger event, even in terms of the cultural effects. But even if the wound of the hyperinflation was smaller, it was still many times greater than the scars after the 2008 crash in the West.
Maybe the number of actual deaths by starvation was limited, it did occur, especially with people unable to work a job (retired people). Also, even for those who did not die from lack of calories, many were left undernourished or malnourished, causing an uptick in deaths from infections, etc.
But as stated above, my main point is what effect it had on the survivors. Those who saw the previously affluent widdowed aunt fall from grace, having to beg her nephews and nieces for bread. Maybe having to refuse to giver her that bread, because your children were hungry, too.
Experiencing (either directly or through some newspaper) the humiliation when French soldiers entered Germany to confiscate assets when Germany could not (or would not) pay the reparations that was demanded, including seeing the Germans that were either shot or turned into refugees.
Seeing how rich were able to (and smart enough to) shifts their assets that would continue to be productive even during hyperinflation. While you, who were used to thinking that money in the Bank was the safest way to save, kept your money there.
And even if you did manage to secure just enough bread for your familiy to make it into 1924, you would hear stories or see pictures of those who did not, and feel the fear that something happened to you that would prevent you from showing up at the factory that, on most days, would pay you to work.
Such experiences leave deep mental scars, and will tend to harden a person and make them more tribal and aggressive. Make them perfect raw materials to be molded by demagoues like Hitler and Goebbels.
In the end, some did become evil monsters. Maybe some were even born that way. But to the extent that is was environmental, it was certainly not born from privilege. It was, just like in most other cases where the result is genocide, born from hardship and humiliation, combined with a strong feeling of resentment towards those who were seen as responsible.