Comment by Tozen
3 years ago
I think that V developers and contributors are well within their rights to address criticisms of their work by detractors. Additionally, the OP has ran away from engaging in debate about various errors and opinions from their review, in an apparent attempt to leave an arguably underhanded one-sided negative impression (which includes suggesting not to use).
So we have a situation where the OP created a hit piece with no feedback from V developers or its community, and detractors are elaborating on it, that leaves few other public options to address it.
> I think that V developers and contributors are well within their rights to address criticisms of their work by detractors.
Indeed you are, but realize that you are also ambassadors for your language, and engaging in petty language war nonsense on public forums doesn’t leave anyone looking great. That’s a problem for V moreso than your detractors, because you are the ones building a reputation for yourselves, while your detractors are relatively anonymous and fungible. They can act anyway they want and it won’t follow them around.
On the other hand, everything said here by Vlangers will stick to V and will be brought up on the next thread. You don’t want the reputation of being fanboys who will descend on any thread about V and zealously argue about it for days. But that’s the reputation you’re building here, and it has nothing to do with the behavior or actions of anyone else. That’s something you are actively choosing to do, and it doesn’t make you or your community look good.
Again, no one looks great in threads like these, but most people here aren’t building a reputation. V is building a reputation. What do the posts by Vlangers here say about V? It’s not exactly a shining advertisement for your community.
Yeah, because V supporters should stay silent, and allow detractors free rein to say anything and continuously smear the language and its developers at will.
Funny, I notice the supporters of other languages don't seem to follow such advice. They make strong defenses and advocate for the languages they like, anywhere and everywhere, including on even this thread.
If anything, V supporters might want to be more vocal and show their support (which can be done in various ways), to counter what's going on. It doesn't work to stay quiet and let bullies keep slapping a person around. They incorrectly interpret it as a sign to continue.
Listen, you do you. I’m just letting you know how you come across to others. Maybe you think you’re defending V here but you’re doing the language and community a grave disservice, IMO. Others have given the V community the same advice, and have been for years, so it’s not just me.
But as long as you’re here on HN could you please at least follow this community’s guidelines? Several of your posts have been flagged for containing personal attacks, and accusations of bad faith and gaslighting are not well-received here. If you’re going to continue commenting, please just make your comments substantive. A strong defense of V would not include accusing others of bad faith because they didn’t file a bug report of GitHub.
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OP made a good faith effort hoping to find a sweet and working language, and the current implementation fell short of its long-advertised promises and accomplishments. That you're calling it a "hit piece" is telling. Y'all are well within your rights to waste your time arguing. I'm just saying that it's a waste of time.
Mostly all this post has is some type checker bugs that have already been fixed (of course the article will never be updated now that they're fixed) and using -prod for measuring compiler speed, when it's explicitly mentioned on the website it's for non optimized builds only.
And nonsense like setting array length on creation is a terrible idea. Go with its `make([]int, 5)` must be a terrible scam language as well.
If he had a good faith, he'd report these issues via GitHub, and they'd get fixed within a week.
So, regarding your claim that I have "a habit of overpromising and even declaring things finished before even starting on them".
Please, list them here. 1.2.3.
Must be easy if there's a habit.
> Mostly all this post has is some type checker bugs that have already been fixed (of course the article will never be updated now that they're fixed)
Alex, all of these are still open right not and are not fixed:
- "No mut m := x mutability check" https://github.com/vlang/v/issues/14803
- "closure capture names are not checked for uniqueness with the closure parameter names" https://github.com/vlang/v/issues/14787
- "segfault in auto string method generated for []&int{len:1} (does not check for 0 pointers)" https://github.com/vlang/v/issues/14786
> using -prod for measuring compiler speed
My article does not do that. I included all the steps used and the 1,000,000 line tests use tcc and not -prod.
> And nonsense like setting array length on creation is a terrible idea. Go with its `make([]int, 5)` must be a terrible scam language as well.
V allows the user to override length field which is used in bounds-checking with no validation. That's the problem.
Please stop lying and just be honest about the state of V.
Given the behavior of you, Tozen and ylluminate on this thread, I have zero interest in interacting with the V "community" again.
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If the bugs are fixed, put 'em in your CI and blog about it. Taking my own advice here, I've got better things to do than argue with you.
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Nowhere did the OP state he came upon V in good faith to be helpful or seeking improvements, but rather starts with the position of whether or not it is worth it (setting up a position to dissuade). Then blasts the language in his summary and opinion (and who is he?), with a non recommendation. Never consults with the V community or opens any bug reports. He uses a throwaway name and account, then runs away from any attempt to be engaged by the V developers over errors and opinions in his review. Looks like a hit piece to me.
Tozen, since no one has spelled it out for you: I am not obligated to sit at my keyboard refreshing the page constantly, waiting for your latest comment. I was here for 6 hours after posting and responded to many comments including multiple of yours where you continuously insinuated ill intent from me because I didn't give your pet programming language a recommendation.
The V project should feel free to pull any bug reports they want out of my blog post (I see they've already done so multiple times). From the votes on the comment section here, I can it's obvious to everyone how dysfunctional the V community is which explains a lot about the state of the project. I will not be interacting with you again.
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I believe I know who the OP is and it's a very sad situation of simple hurt feelings from largely misunderstanding. It's a sad situation actually, but such is life and differences of cultures and human interaction. I feel bad for the OP to have had to have felt so badly that they felt the necessity to post this hit piece vs trying to really address the issues that other community members have gathered from it as actual issues to resolve. So sad.