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Comment by kieselguhr_kid

3 years ago

This false history is a literary achievement. Writing such a plausible pseudo-account and convincing so many for so long is impressive. I guess they should take it all down but I'm kind of sad that there aren't any comparable projects (note: I'm aware that there are wikis devoted to creating fictional worlds, but these worlds are rarely historically grounded or plausible)

I’m surprised that she doesn’t publish adapted novels based on her Wikipedia entries.

Might be wrong, but both the Twilight series and 50 Shades of Gray series were initially fan fiction pieces by housewives who published their work on blogs.

Alternate historical fiction is a very popular genre.

  • 50 Shades of Grey was Twilight fanfic with the 'serial numbers filed off'. I don't think Twilight itself has fanfic in its origin.

    • I think Twilight was the first novel from the author and she pretty much wrote a transcript, and got a book deal off the back of it. She had little previous experience in writing novels and was just very, very lucky that it happened to all fall in to place... some first time novelists spend years trying to do what she did.

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  • Forgot to add that Orson Welles started his Hollywood career pulling a much worse public deception.

    • If you are referring to "War of the worlds " the radio broadcast indicates it is a audio drama. He couldn't have intended for people to think it is real just because the audio drama is in the form of a news broadcast.

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Exactly my thoughts. This whole story is wild. Putting over 10 years of effort into this is mind bending.

Some people really love to write. She must have gotten incredibly lost in her fictional world. I can only imagine it must have been the case here, and at some point it just happened to be that the medium she used was Wikipedia becuase that's where it all started for unrelated reasons.

  • She made a statement that she should learn a craft, but she already has one. She could definitely start writing a novel in her fictional world.

It was the Chinese Wikipedia. It's not like it would be vetted as closely as the English version, so not that surprising it stayed up so long.

> Writing such a plausible pseudo-account and convincing so many for so long is impressive.

I find that in practice, the scary part is that it is not so impressive and that the thousand eyes are largely a lie.

All too often have I seen such things go on for a long time without anyone noticing, or perhaps many noticing, but not being motivated to investigate and call out, or perhaps many even calling out, but their calls going unanswered.

  • And perhaps scarier: Wikipedia is one of the better policed places.

    If you work in a commercial publisher, there's less oversight.

    • Well they don't have the same threat model. Teenagers and grifters can't edit as easily in the case of a commercial publisher. That's not to say that they don't have their flaws, or that they are superior to Wikipedia. Just that the analysis is off the mark.

  • I routinely find spam, vandalism and heavy POV-pushing in English WP. In general, I check the sources, and if they are absent or fail to support the article text, I correct them[0], or challenge them on the talk page.

    Do you? When you say you see such things going on without anybody noticing, presumably you noticed?

    [0] I don't generally edit articles on politically-sensitive topics. They are wargrounds, patrolled by tough gatekeepers. I take any information in WP about current affairs with a bushel of salt. But it's still better than, for example, mainstream media.

    • I often notice after the fact when it blows up.

      Consider the situation with XScreenLock in Debian when it was found that the code had a timer in it that bugged people to update when using an unsupported version. Once the timer reached this point and many received this update, Debian immediately patched it to remove it as many found it annoying and it was a controversial move, but to me the most interesting part was that it was in the code, publically; it was added at one point,and no one at Debian knew.

      This timer that merely annoyed users into updating could just as easily been serious malware that no one would have noticed that lay dormant to awaken at a set date.

The Assassins' Creed video game franchise weaves real history to it's fictional story line. Playing the game or watching the game movies on YouTube can yield interesting Wikipedia rabbit holes.

While I understand your initial reaction, I implore you to think again about the potential consequences of her actions.

As a not-so-far-fetched example, remember that QAnon started out as a similar sort of 'blended reality fiction' (before it was likely overtaken by state-level propaganda agents). The only difference is that QAnon was based on giving a new interpretation to reputable third-party texts, while this goes one step further to actually fabricate seemingly original texts by a reputable source - I'd argue that's even worse.

"false history" -- is there any other kind? It is like the difference between a cult and established religions: the main difference is scale and time.

  • If you have trouble with the concept of 'truth', just go by what's useful.

    That's eg why financial newspapers often stick closer to the truth: their readers want to be able to play the markets, so need something with a bit of a reality check, instead of just playing to their ideological preferences only.

    • Importantly, this only applies to the subsets of financial media that traders pay money for. Bloomberg's free news is garbage opinion pieces, but the stuff you pay (a lot) for is generally decent.

    • > financial newspapers often stick closer to the truth

      Are you sure?

      From my limited experience, there is a huge amount of fictitious narrative in financial news. I just had a look at https://www.barrons.com/ - hard to say how much is just opinions of the journalist, but not much looked fact based.

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  • Correct.

    History in an ideal world tries to record what happened.

    But realistically, history is a tool for politics.

    But judging by the heavy downvotes of your comment, that fact doesn’t seem to be popular.

    • Even a biased account of history is a record of history, in some ways even more interesting when you have other biased accounts to compare with.

      Goofy as his methods are, Herodotus is a very compelling read specifically because it's not one coherent narrative, but a collection of points-of-view (none of which may be entirely correct, but reflect what people claimed at least).

    • > that fact doesn’t seem to be popular.

      No its because he question to concept of truth itself. Literally everybody knows history writing is manipulated for many reasons.

      But in my observation, however in my view historiography is often far more complex then reflecting simply political desires.

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