Comment by hitpointdrew
3 years ago
> I don't understand why ~FedNow and CBDC~ BIG BROTHER are such a big issue in the US.
Fixed this for you.
I don't really want a gigantic federal agency having insight into every financial transaction I make. Hard, fucking, pass.
Are you under the impression that ACH, the thing FedNow is replacing, is free from government influence?
This is what's bizarre to me about the FedNow hysteria. It's not a government system replacing a private market system. It's a government system replacing an older, worse government system. It's like having a panic attack because the Federal Reserve is updating their PCs to from Windows XP to Windows 10.
Because Nacha (and ACH) is explicitly not a government system
ACH involves the Federal Reserve Bank in every transfer. FedNow involves the Federal Reserve Bank in every transfer.
2 replies →
Nacha governs the ACH network and does not operate anything. The actual processing is split between the Fed and a company called Clearing House.
Ignoring the fact that FedNow doesn't change much in this regard...
I'm torn on this. Visa, MasterCard, Venmo (aka PayPal), etc. all know about large subsets of my transactions, and they go and sell my personal data to other companies in sleazy ways to cover their costs.
Is that better or worse than the government knowing all this stuff? Sure, the government can also legally use force against me and deprive me of my freedom and possessions, and might pervert my transaction history into justifying doing bad things to me. But that's a risk, not a certainty. Private companies selling my data and using it in nefarious ways is a certainty.
We can stop private companies from selling that data if we wanted to. Once the federal government has direct control of our financial transactions, how do we limit what they can do with that power?
The point of keeping the government out of the banking business would be to keep the door cracked for the chance to improve it later. That door slams shut once the federal government has the insights into every transaction, and more importantly the ability to deny ones they don't want us to do. We also Wil have much less control over the creation of a social credit score, theoretically the government would have everything it needs to make that happen with control over our transactions.
Can’t the government just buy this data from them, anyway?
They can and do. The government doesn't need a warrant to buy data from a databroker selling your information wholesale.
don't forget SARs to FinCEN and other AML requirements
the government already knows.
It's not about KNOWING, it's about CONTROLLING. The concern is they can shut off your ability to make transactions if you don't cooperate with whatever their agenda is at any given moment, like what the truckers in Canada protesting vax mandates experienced.
1 reply →
Just wondering, but how is this different from our current system where judges can approve search warrants and companies have to comply?
Are you think they won’t need search warrants?
Cash isn't recordable in the same way. I don't provide my id with the transaction when making cash purchases.
I don't think this service is replacing cash payments unless I am missing something?
2 replies →
This is the difference between the government needing a search warrant and having to come to your house, and them needing a search warrant but a law enforcement officer already living in your house. Sure, they still "need a warrant", but that doesn't make the situation acceptable.
Do you think private unregulated businesses (CashApp, Venmo, etc.) that this is trying to replace are any better? These companies just sell your transaction data to the highest bidder, no warrant needed.
1 reply →
Seems to me people is failing to understand what CBDCs will bring, especially even more “bad money” and economic slavery caused by “incentives” to spend.
But the list goes on..
Please explain to me what FedNow changes compared to the current ACH system in regards to government recording of transactions? Please explain to me how FedNow prevents cash transactions from occurring, or otherwise justify your statement “every financial transaction I make”?
> I don't really want a gigantic federal agency having insight into every financial transaction I make. Hard, fucking, pass.
If that's the case, I have bad news for you about the banking system of literally every developed country.
Ever heard of cash?
I can buy an icecream anywhere in the world without anybody tracking me. Even with the "wrong" political opinion (even if I would be a trucker in Canada during certain protests).
I cannot do that with CBDC.
No. CBDC (aka: the ultimate totalitarian's dream) is not the same as the current banking system, despite the current banking system also being very horrible for privacy.
* All of the above assuming that cash will be banned and CBDC will be mandatory for everybody.
> I can buy an icecream anywhere in the world without anybody tracking me.
No you can't. Companies like OpenEye and Deep Sentinel offer facial recognition solutions that are targeted at loss-prevention, and these systems are commonplace in the USA. Facial recognition-based consumer analytics systems are also available.
In fact, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a pint of ice cream that you can buy without having a camera pointed at your face. Even the little stand at the beach in the state park near my old place had a camera, and I didn't even have real LTE coverage there.
Privacy comes only from the force of law; not the other way around.
Anyways, the whole conversation is a red herring. This is a replacement for ACH, which already exists, and there isn't substantively more information sharing between banks and governments than already exists.
2 replies →
The reality is, supermajority (including me) of people prefer not using cash. Especially up here in the North.
Can’t even recall to ever pulling some out other than some casino entertainment night. I understand all the “freedom” (or whatever one might call it) I’m losing, but the positive sides are much better (never have to care about losing my wallet, much faster transactions, convenience and etc.). Sure, sounds bad on paper, but I haven’t felt any negatives in 10+ years, especially when in practice makes my life easier.
1 reply →
That's a very load-bearing assumption.
1 reply →
You know they already do right? If you pay or get paid by direct deposit or check those all run through the fed.