← Back to context

Comment by kbknapp

2 years ago

I think the reason the word "scam" became attached is because those outrageous and frequent claims were attached to receiving large sums of money.

34 comments

kbknapp

Reply
lifthrasiir  2 years ago

That particular word was used back when V was not yet really open-sourced and only the playground and prebuilt binary was available [1]. The author falsely stated (among others) that it was already open-sourced, and while I believe it was a simple misunderstanding the reaction was not really far-fetched back then. That specific claim was retracted once the compiler was properly open-sourced [2].

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20251706

  • Tozen  2 years ago

    V was never a "scam" or "vaporware", that's a false characterization and misuse of the terms. Such is being done for the purpose of attempting to hurt the public image of competition, for the benefit of certain parties.

    V has been open-sourced, on GitHub, and downloadable since June 22nd of 2019. The language creator publicly stated he would put it out in late June, and did.

    There was some excessive fuss about, around June of 2019, over a Patreon supporter early release. That was his right to do such a release, and it was specific for those supporters, but detractors were "angry" that it wasn't for them or open-sourced.

    What some detractors were trying to do, was claim that V would never be released because it was somehow a "scam" or "vaporware". That is, there was nothing to release. They were of course wrong, because V was publicly released. That's when targets were switched or the goal posts moved. Anything that could be used to attempt to justify the earlier vitriol, inhibit the rising popularity, or hurt the public image of the language was used.

    Furthermore, no programming language is released as a finished product. And an alpha version of any language, is understood by most, as work in progress (WIP) by default. There is no "scam" there. For open-source projects, any person is free to contribute, if they are really so technically knowledgeable as they claim or give the appearance of being. Everyone is free to donate or sponsor a project that they like, there's nothing nefarious about that.

    • lifthrasiir  2 years ago

      My exact statement is that: people had good reasons to believe V is a scam or vaporware before 2019-06-22. Note that this is completely distinct from the statement that V was a scam or vaporware in the same period [1]. I believe this is true. If you don't think so, I'd like to hear your rationales for that---not the reason that V is not a scam or vaporware.

      [1] I should point out that vaporware can be a temporary status, that is, something can become a vaporware until it no longer is. So the exact pinpointing is necessary.

  • amedvednikov  2 years ago

    The author never stated it was open sourced when the early access binaries were released.

    They were released 2 days before the source. It was just an early access thing.

oblio  2 years ago

I actually forgot about that, what did they do? Ask for Patreon contributions?

  • Tozen  2 years ago

    Developers are allowed to get or ask for contributions, donations, or sponsors.

    To add to the strangeness of how its being mischaracterized, was the apparent jealousy (back in 2019) over the amount of donations that other developers got. Then for certain ones to have got so upset at getting less, they started to bash and publicly ask people to give them their money instead.

    Somehow, it's OK for X to get money for their competing language, but it's "wrong" for Y to get money for their language.

    • oblio  2 years ago

      I have no horse in this race (and you obviously do).

      There were a TON of red flags around V for at least 1 year after the initial announcement. Funding, exaggerated claims, etc.

      I wish V the best of luck but the start wasn't something that inspired confidence in neutral observers like me.

Tozen  2 years ago

All open-source programming languages are allowed to get or ask for donations and have sponsors, not just the languages that one is a fan of.

It's also ethically wrong to engage in falsely labeling or making false accusations, such as "scam" or "vaporware". Particularly, when the actual intent or agenda is that such persons are detractors or competitors from rival languages.

Lastly, various financial supporters of the V language have even come on HN to tell and explain how proud they are of the language and the progress it has made. Despite detractors and competitors, V is still making fantastic progress, and that's great to see.

  • lifthrasiir  2 years ago

    > All open-source programming languages are allowed to get or ask for donations and have sponsors, [...]

    > Particularly, when the actual intent or agenda is that such persons are detractors or competitors from rival languages.

    V was not open-sourced when the accusation was made, and there were probably two or three people qualifying your description of "rivals" (even after assuming bad intents). Stop diluting the context.

    > Lastly, various financial supporters of the V language have even come on HN to tell and explain how proud they are of the language and the progress it has made.

    This is not different from how many investors to failed crowdfunding campaigns would behave before the actual failure. They will either acknolwedge risks (but few actually evaluate them) or "answer" every criticism with non sequiturs. It is not really their fault, but still useless as an evidence.

    • amedvednikov  2 years ago

      > V was not open-sourced when the accusation was made

      V has been open source since its public release on June 22, 2019.

      On June 20, 2019 an early access build of the compiler was released.

      3 replies →