Comment by fuzzy2
2 years ago
Organic Maps is super awesome. The routing feature is really good, too. It even works on Apple CarPlay! There are some glitches to be aware of though: Routing across region borders is often broken.
Also, a warning about OSM in general: Do not blindly trust it. Map data can be very out of date in some places, especially on remote-ish hiking trails.
> Do not blindly trust it. Map data can be very out of date in some places, especially on remote-ish hiking trails.
Also, for the love of everything that's holy, do the same with Apple/Google Maps. They can be horribly wrong to the point of being actively dangerous.
For roads though they generally hook into official sources (e.g. Ordnance Survey in the UK) so they are guaranteed to get updated when the layout changes. That's not true for OSM. (Though obviously in the UK there are enough map nerds that it's very unlikely to be an issue.)
I don't know for UK, but in Swiss Alps the data is extremely scarce, which paths outright missing and Maps showing paths that can be closed or extremely dangerous.
Apple and Google are not guaranteed to be updated when government road data changes. They do their best and they have tons of money and user-reported data (like live GPS traces from users' devices) to do decent work, but there are many times that OSM map nerds do a better job. The real issue with OSM is in remote areas where not a lot of people are around on the ground to realize that it's broken or care: the first user in an area often has some volunteer work to do. But fortunately it's easy and you can do it. Any random person can make a better map of their area than Google, instead of having to beg them for it.
Official sources also may have outdated maps.
Especially when for example bridge was destroyed hours/days ago.
Can't trust Apple/Google, can't trust OSM, can't trust paper maps...
What's the right answer here?
It highly depends on what you're doing (a road trip vs a grocery run vs hiking mountainous back country) but the first step is to do a sanity check of the route. It's very easy for many GPS apps to route people to the center of an airport for example (i.e. the middle of the runway) instead of the main terminal, and only recently have a few apps managed to do better about that. Other times you can just easily spot that it's not a great route by reviewing it for ten seconds.
> What's the right answer here?
Essentially, check before hand and if possible, use maps fit for purpose.
(E.g. Switzerland has nice public topo maps which are usually more accurate than Maps/OSM. They're available in SwissTopo app. The dedicated app also tends to show closed routes more accurately.)
And double check with local info boards about current state (many regions have websites or dedicated meterological organizations that will post recommendations and closed routes).
Be aware that all maps be untrustworthy. Be aware of your environment. Don't blindly follow instructions. Have a backup plan.
> What's the right answer here?
Do not ignore reality.
Do not drive around signs announcing that bridge is closed, for an example.
To use a cliche, the map is not the territory.
Trust but verify
Instead of trusting or not trusting any map by default, try understanding how they're made, then you'll have a good idea what could go wrong with it.
OSM in particular doesn't use third party registries and surveys due to the licensing issues, relying on volunteer work instead, and has a participation-based culture (aka "if you want to have a map of something, make it yourself"). Armchair mappers are using satellite photos and publicly available info, while field volunteers map everything that cannot be seen from above. Both are important. Obviously your trails have to be visited by someone participating in the community for them to appear or be updated on the map. You could be the one, for example.
OSM is also highly chaotic like Wikipedia, and the quality heavily depends on the local community, so always research the situation in the area you intend to visit. For example there's a lot of unreliable poor quality machine work in Latin America in OSM, even in populated areas. No idea why Portuguese/Spanish-speaking communities are letting this fly.
I agree with what you’re saying. I just find myself lulled by OSM’s ridiculously high quality in the places I usually go. And I suspect many others feel the same.
Depends on the country also; some have their own official mapping data available in the public domain...
No not trust it google maps either. There is a crossroads that is wrong in Google near my house and it is right in OSM. In fact... I did fix it but I will not report about the error to Google ;-)
> I did fix it but I will not report about the error to Google
Why not? That seems like a weird stance. Is your desire to hurt Google so strong that you are not willing to help potentially thousands of people?
I am not a Google employee. Why should I work to fix their product? I prefer to help potentially thousands of people by helping a non-profit like openstreemaps
> Is your desire to hurt Google so strong that you are not willing to help potentially thousands of people?
Not the same person: my time is limited, so I volunteer to fix data only when it is released on open license allowing me and others to use it.
Otherwise I expect to be paid.
In general, I need more than "it will help others" to spend time on something, I am already spending too much time on things like this.
If Google wants to have good updated user-contributed data for free, I hear there's a great open source map they can use ;)
I'm pretty sure you aren't even allowed to report an error to google without creating a privacy-invading account...
I threw some pretty hard challenges at it - small unknown local beach with unpaved road access. And took them brillantly. Noted all the road hazards and even knew where best to park - even with local knowledge there is no better parking around.
Amazing work, loving this app
Please make sure that you have up-to-date app and maps data, and tell us where you see cross-border routing issues. There's an easy way to report it from the app using "Report a bug" button in the About dialog.
IIRC, that was over a year ago near Oberstdorf, at the border between Austria and Germany. You could not get an on-foot route from the Kanzelwand Bergstation[1] to Fellhorn[2]. The hiking path follows the border closely, crossing it multiple times. That location seems to work fine now.
I’ll make sure to report it in the future!
[1]: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/252814925 [2]: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/276271393
I remember hearing about issues like this and I agree things are probably better lately after some fixes.