Comment by sanderjd
2 years ago
Yeah I dunno... I mean, a lot of these things are true, and they all are big problems, but also, in my experience, academics (at least in the sciences) do actually know how to read and understand research, which is an extremely difficult and useful skill.
Yeah, I think "mettle" here is like a sword and shield and the ability to use them (read and understand scientific literature, and able to do so, self-directed, for years).
But whether a person does use them, and for what, is entirely due to the person themselves.
That’s okay, I know.
Anyone with the wherewithal can learn to “read and understand research” it’s not a magical power bestowed upon the few who receive recognition from some long standing bloated institution.
Attributing the drive and work of an individual to such an institution is weird and elitist.
I should note that if said institution paid for, assembled the team, and provided resources, then that institution obviously deserves credit.
I think this is a misunderstanding of how stuff works. I agree that anyone (or at least a large percentage of people) can learn to do it and it isn't a magical power.
But it's far more common for academics to be able to do it because that's what academics learn to do. It's a large focus of the training.
It isn't elitist to say "car mechanics are good at reading and acting on the information in car engine manuals", that's just what car mechanics are trained to do and get consistent practice at doing.
I don’t think there’s any misunderstanding. Your comment seems in line with what I said and what I believe.
One can teach themselves how to be a mechanic and pass the ASE. Most go through some course to learn the trade, of course. It’s more structured that way and many find it easier.
I’ve never had my auto repair shop attribute their mechanic’s skill to where they learned to be a mechanic. I never turned down a mechanic bc they didn’t go to the brown or Harvard of car repair.
On the other hand I’m an expert in my field, but I’ve been turned down from at least 1 job specifically because I didn’t graduate from Brown university. (It was a backend job for the now-defunct Delivery Dudes)
OP attributed the mettle of the author to higher education and academia, which I think is weird and elitist.
Attributing success or ability to an institution fosters that kind of weird elitism.
1 reply →
Isn't that just what PhD do? I meant going through piles of papers - most of them bring more new questions than answers - and stay sane
Yep. That's exactly what I'm saying. This is like the primary skill that people learn to get a PhD. It's true that people can learn it without getting a PhD, but hardly anyone does, because it kind of sucks and if you're doing it you may as well do it with the guidance of an advisor and get a credential at the end.
Many academics have these skills; whether the higher education system is effective at teaching them and delivers an experience worth the significant cost to students (or here in Australia, also the publics).
I would argue that it's clearly the most effective system at training people to do this. It's fine to imagine (and try to create) alternative systems that would work better. But there isn't one now.
Constructive criticism is good. But what I mostly see (and often do myself) is just grousing.
Yeah you’re not wrong at all. I’m not saying “down with academia” or anything like that.
Just that attributing the work and work ethic of an individual to the institution of academia is weird and fosters and propagates elitism.