Comment by dvektor
3 years ago
Here (Maine) calls are almost $7.00/hr which is indeed outrageous, however the jobs pay 2-4x better than other prisons i've been in, the food is better, you are given more things like clothes that other prisons would make you pay for. And I am allowed to go to college, and even hold a job developing software.
So although it is absurd, I have been in other prisons where the calls are dirt cheap but they have shit food, they dont give you ANYTHING and there isn't shit for opportunities. I understand that sometimes the profit they make off the calls might be going to things like quality of the food, etc. I know that this is almost never the case, but I do know that it is somewhat the case here.
How I got here is a very interesting related recent (17d) submission, where a tech-savy inmate discusses how lucky they were to pretty much accidentally end up getting sent to a Maine prison, where they were able to get access to the internet & go from what reads to me like a hopeless prison mentality to a hopeful, interested, engaged & active person in the world, even from their confines.
Alas, the greater context here, and seemingly much of why they write, is that Maine seems to be the one a few rare states where they believe there's any hope of reform & rehabilitation. And even to get this context, it seemingly took Covid for them to be granted access to the knowledge & information to unlock & enable their journey & growth, for them to escape a foreboding dark prison fatalism. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38229231
This is unhumble as heck & just my own weird strange warped view, but I personally think there is a resounding screaming loud truth that access to FOSS is a civic virtue that can redeem lives & should be amplified accelerated & supported at all levels. Prisons, schools, & elsewhere: being able to personally entail ourselves into such great projects lifts the soul, gives us worthy efforts to motivate & work towards. FOSS invites us in to participate in the greater non-zero-sum aspects of humanity.
Just hang around all day with no rent learning and coding. Maine prison sounds pretty sweet.
Actually sounds a little like those hackers that live in pod spaces in SF.
I do pay rent because I work (10% of my salary) as well as I obviously pay my taxes. This is why I feel like it is insane that people wouldn't want this to be more prevalent.. would you rather have me sucking up tax payer money and leaving prison in worse shape than when I came in? or completely changing my life and paying for my housing and paying my taxes and leaving with a career and a guarantee that I never come back? seems obvious
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The big difference of course being that you’re surrounded by low-IQ, violent men (often mentally ill) who are prone to doing dumb things. Not the kinds of people you want to spend your days with.
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sounds to me more like the army, but there often isn't much difference...
Yeah that's actually my blog post lol same guy...
Also, it's not just the published rate. They do things like...
- add credit card surcharges
- bill whole minutes
- no refunds for unused minutes when the service isn't needed.
And, it's not just phones. Similar treatment for email/telegram type services, commissary type items, books, music, etc. Some even deduct from these accounts for medical service visits.
The US incarceration system is a shit show.
Prison is supposed to be rehabilitation, not a self-funding machine.
> Prison is supposed to be rehabilitation
That’s one part. The others are deterrence, incapacitation, retribution and restitution [1].
Letting prisoner’s work aids rehabilitation. Letting them earn further aids restitution.
[1] https://open.lib.umn.edu/criminallaw/chapter/1-5-the-purpose...
> Letting them earn further aids restitution.
These things have a balance, though. If you're planning on letting people out of prison one day (i.e. if they don't have a life sentence)...
And it's punitive to the point that familial relations break and people lose what little support network they have and ability to live outside of prison...
You can expect they're going to show back right up where they started. In which case, by facilitating repeated recidivism, you've neutered deterrence, incapacitation and left them unable to make meaningful restitution.
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...according to one textbook, in one country, that happens to have the largest prison population in the world both per capita and in total.
> Retribution prevents future crime by removing the desire for personal avengement (in the form of assault, battery, and criminal homicide, for example) against the defendant. When victims or society discover that the defendant has been adequately punished for a crime, they achieve a certain satisfaction that our criminal procedure is working effectively, which enhances faith in law enforcement and our government.
And yet when victims and victim families are interviewed on this subject, most of them aren't terribly satisfied by criminals being "punished."
What they typically care about is that the person won't harm others, and that's where rehabilitation comes in.
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> That’s one part. The others are deterrence, incapacitation, retribution and restitution [1].
Deterrence (fail) - 44% of criminals go to jail again.
Retribution (fail) - Not sure what the value of retribution is other than deterrance. See above.
Incapacitation - a substantial number of inmates commit crimes while in prison.
We need to find a better way.
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Has it not occurred to you that, if we want people to become productive working members of society, that perhaps allowing them to learn and work from prison might be rehabilitative?
Perhaps you misinterpreted my comments, $7/hour for calls where the money is used to provide better meals implies that without additional funding the meals would not be at an acceptable level.
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I don't think he negated that and just stated that the funds to do so should mostly come from somewhere else - otherwise there is motivation to exploit the prisoners.
It also means you lose alot of freedom and privileges, including unlimited cell phone minutes and leisurely calls with your friends/family.
What kind of jobs take in a dev that's in prison? I hear havig any prison record is one of the easiest ways to fail a background check, even if you are otherwise a stellar candidate.
But that is good to hear about college. So much of my state to this day is still on the "hard on crime" narrative even though I'd bet my bottom dollar that over half the prisoners just need a detox session (or need to be released yesterday over weed charges). Some direction and education would help further and reduce recidivism.
I work for a company that develops education software for people in prison, founded by two people who were released after being sentenced to life as juveniles.
Massachusetts has pretty strict laws on criminal records in general but also questions about criminal backgrounds in applications and interviews.
Some cities in MA are prohibit companies they contract with from discriminating against those with criminal backgrounds. And before some smarmypants jumps on my back: there's verbiage about it only applying to those who will not be working sensitive positions. I'm not an expert but I believe it's things like unsupervised handling of money and working with vulnerable populations.
Imagine working as a remote software dev in prison making more money than the warden.
That would be wholesome. Though if word goes out you're earning SW dev wages then you're making yourself a target for extorsion/racketeering from gangs and wardens meaning you'll probably have to pay half your wage so something bad doesn't happen to you.
How would word get out? Just dont tell anyone.
Also on a software devs salary you could bribe so many guards and inmates you would be king of that place.
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if you think software dev wages would impress inmates, wait till you know how much they make from selling drugs
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I've been reading your comments here, and am really interested in hearing more about your story, especially your place of work. Where can I learn more? Your perspective is so interesting.
edit: I see your blog post linked below by someone else. I'll read that!
How exactly do other prisons compare? Which one have you been to?