I don't necessarily blame the developer for selling: I understand that some offers are difficult to refuse. But I absolutely do blame him for being dishonest to his users and contributors.
No one was told about this. People only found out about the sale by chance, because someone noticed that the Play Store listing details were changed and made a post on Reddit.
When confronted on GitHub, the developer gave evasive answers, citing vague and unrelated issues, such as "the quality of the Android ecosystem dropping".
I assume a lot of users bought these apps with the expectation that they were not infested with ads, data mining, dark patterns, etc. Most people have automatic updates enabled, and they will get all of the above shoved into their face before they can prevent it.
The value of these acquisitions is determined almost entirely by the userbase. The developer was only able to get this deal because of his users. At the very least, they deserved to be treated with some basic amount of respect.
I once found a nice open source ambient noise generator on F-Droid. Fully local, offline.
One day the developer decided to switch to a pay SaaS model. They updated the open source app to be a thin client for their web service.
Surely many existing users on the play store found quite a surprise when they updated!
F-Droid at least provides a little protection here, with the independent builds and easy downgrades, and if the community is big enough you see forks appear. But sadly this kind of cashing in is always going to be a risk with open source software in app stores.
So, to be fair, the thing about his displeasure with Android was in response to somebody asking if he would be involved in helping maintain a fork that’s being set up. He said no and gave his Android reasons. Which to me sounds like he’s literally getting out of Android development.
Now, I didn’t read all the way to the bottom of that thread and GitHub, but no one really seem to ask him why he didn’t give notice of to anybody. The comments were either like, no, don’t do it, or we’ve gotta fork this. They weren’t really about how he has handled the issue.
Doesn't the GPL protect third-party contributions in ways that liberal licences do not? I think the author might have trouble re-licensing third-party GPL contributions under a proprietary licence, but IANAL.
From what I gather, the author isn't re-licensing the code but is selling their copyright and brand (trademark?) to Zipo, who in turn will probably try to re-license it (without permission from other contributors) or will simply choose to violate the license.
This is very sad. It understand that everyone needs to put food on the table and probably Tibor got an offer he couldn't refuse, maybe combined with burnout working on these apps for so long. So I can understand that.
That being said, the lack of transparency is not acceptable. Apart from one little acknowledgement in the above GitHub issue, there's zero communication on his part. Given that people actually paid, donated or even contributed source to his projects, even if it was not much, he has an obligation to these users/contributors and be open about the future of these apps. Most importantly:
- Will the apps remain FOSS? If a license change is planned, what about people who contributed and don't agree with that change?
- Which releases will be affected: What about the "Pro" version people paid for? What about the versions on F-Droid?
Oh, no. I liked those tools, but I don't let them update since they started having "premium versions".
The web site still says "A group of simple, open source Android apps without ads and unnecessary permissions, with customizable colors." They're on F-Droid.
> Oh, no. I liked those tools, but I don't let them update since they started having "premium versions".
Expecting project maintainers to solely fund the development of open source projects used by millions of people is the leopard that keeps eating our faces.
I wonder how much universal basic income, or at least a stronger economy, could spur FOSS development. I feel like the 2008 crisis and the rise of the precariat put a permanent dent in the phenomenon of non-professional devs maintaining free-software projects as a hobby.
Somehow this leopard only exists on systems like Android and Google Play Store or web browser extension stores, but notably not in places like F-Droid or the repos of any common GNU/Linux distribution.
"Leopard eats face" is a dumb reddit thought-terminating cliche. I invite you to actually think about the problem and ask yourself why developers of FOSS tools selling out happens in some domains but not others, and effects some users without warning but not others.
Simple Mobile makes apps like file managers and image galleries. Just how much work is required to maintain this besides keeping the file access API up to date? Not sure if that's even had any breaking changes on Android in the past several years.
There's something fishy with this company, people report getting charged without asking, however all the positive reviews of said company is from specifically app devs who sold their app to this company![0]
Many moons ago, an acquaintance sold his app account ( with apps like battery saver apps etc ) to an Israeli company. As i recall, in that case, the acquisition was for data-harvesting purposes.
Simple gallery of all apps on my phone were ones which always worked, from f droid, without any hitch, handled like 20k photos like a champ and had "hidden folder" thing. I love this thing.
Glad their is a fork. I don't use other apps, they are either feature incomplete or not intuitive but gallery is solid 10.
Developer mentions the abysmal state of Android development and where it's headed as one cause in a comment. That's honestly relatable. Some of those apps are the best available on the platform (the pro gallery especially so), I'm sure the fork will do fine even in maintenance mode as it's mostly feature complete. F-Droid may be slow with releases and have a few annoyances but it remains the best and most trustworthy store—on Google's you'd never see this coming until the incoming ad/spyware is installed on your phone, those acquisitions are predatory with user data.
Ouch. I sponsored the developer on GitHub for a few months precisely because I realized that we need to support independent developers who are in the trenches building un-sexy software like SMS, Gallery, Calendar, etc. I don't blame them for selling, but it does leave a bad taste in my mouth...
We need a Mozilla-type organization that is a nonprofit and focuses on open-source computing tools and apps. Operating system, file managers, galleries, email clients, the works.
The sad reality is that Mozilla once did all these things, but lack of funding meant that many efforts were eventually discontinued. As great as Mozilla is, they too are effectively 'captured' due to their reliance on Google funding. Firefox is the only browser that doesn't support installing PWAs, which is unbelievable, and almost certainly a move made to please Google.
How would you create a Mozilla-type (and presumably size) organisation, without getting into the same funding-related issues?
From my perspective, the FOSS funding does not scale with the effort required, unless a for-profit funds it. Government grants are also used, but they cannot be viewed as a steady source of income.
Keep a copy of the APK and block automatic updates. Don't support anything that doesn't work without phoning home. That's what I'd do in today's economy.
F-Droid works like the Debian repos: F-Droid builds are not built by the developer, they are built by F-Droid volunteers from source. They don't accept pre-built applications.
This is unethical.
I don't necessarily blame the developer for selling: I understand that some offers are difficult to refuse. But I absolutely do blame him for being dishonest to his users and contributors.
No one was told about this. People only found out about the sale by chance, because someone noticed that the Play Store listing details were changed and made a post on Reddit.
When confronted on GitHub, the developer gave evasive answers, citing vague and unrelated issues, such as "the quality of the Android ecosystem dropping".
I assume a lot of users bought these apps with the expectation that they were not infested with ads, data mining, dark patterns, etc. Most people have automatic updates enabled, and they will get all of the above shoved into their face before they can prevent it.
The value of these acquisitions is determined almost entirely by the userbase. The developer was only able to get this deal because of his users. At the very least, they deserved to be treated with some basic amount of respect.
I once found a nice open source ambient noise generator on F-Droid. Fully local, offline.
One day the developer decided to switch to a pay SaaS model. They updated the open source app to be a thin client for their web service.
Surely many existing users on the play store found quite a surprise when they updated!
F-Droid at least provides a little protection here, with the independent builds and easy downgrades, and if the community is big enough you see forks appear. But sadly this kind of cashing in is always going to be a risk with open source software in app stores.
So, to be fair, the thing about his displeasure with Android was in response to somebody asking if he would be involved in helping maintain a fork that’s being set up. He said no and gave his Android reasons. Which to me sounds like he’s literally getting out of Android development.
Now, I didn’t read all the way to the bottom of that thread and GitHub, but no one really seem to ask him why he didn’t give notice of to anybody. The comments were either like, no, don’t do it, or we’ve gotta fork this. They weren’t really about how he has handled the issue.
Doesn't the GPL protect third-party contributions in ways that liberal licences do not? I think the author might have trouble re-licensing third-party GPL contributions under a proprietary licence, but IANAL.
From what I gather, the author isn't re-licensing the code but is selling their copyright and brand (trademark?) to Zipo, who in turn will probably try to re-license it (without permission from other contributors) or will simply choose to violate the license.
9 replies →
Note that https://www.patreon.com/tiborkaputa is up and collecting money, the same for funding requests at https://github.com/SimpleMobileTools/General-Discussion
This also compounded by getting users to buy his "pR0" version that he says will be free ads and your data private forever
The devs also think that they’re gonna get to relicense the code.
What a bunch of idiots.
This is very sad. It understand that everyone needs to put food on the table and probably Tibor got an offer he couldn't refuse, maybe combined with burnout working on these apps for so long. So I can understand that.
That being said, the lack of transparency is not acceptable. Apart from one little acknowledgement in the above GitHub issue, there's zero communication on his part. Given that people actually paid, donated or even contributed source to his projects, even if it was not much, he has an obligation to these users/contributors and be open about the future of these apps. Most importantly:
- Will the apps remain FOSS? If a license change is planned, what about people who contributed and don't agree with that change?
- Which releases will be affected: What about the "Pro" version people paid for? What about the versions on F-Droid?
The source will stay around, and a contributor decided to maintain a fork (https://github.com/SimpleMobileTools/General-Discussion/issu...) but it would be appropriate for more people to clone the repositories and especially their issues
Oh, no. I liked those tools, but I don't let them update since they started having "premium versions".
The web site still says "A group of simple, open source Android apps without ads and unnecessary permissions, with customizable colors." They're on F-Droid.
> Oh, no. I liked those tools, but I don't let them update since they started having "premium versions".
Expecting project maintainers to solely fund the development of open source projects used by millions of people is the leopard that keeps eating our faces.
I wonder how much universal basic income, or at least a stronger economy, could spur FOSS development. I feel like the 2008 crisis and the rise of the precariat put a permanent dent in the phenomenon of non-professional devs maintaining free-software projects as a hobby.
4 replies →
Somehow this leopard only exists on systems like Android and Google Play Store or web browser extension stores, but notably not in places like F-Droid or the repos of any common GNU/Linux distribution.
"Leopard eats face" is a dumb reddit thought-terminating cliche. I invite you to actually think about the problem and ask yourself why developers of FOSS tools selling out happens in some domains but not others, and effects some users without warning but not others.
3 replies →
Exactly what kind of funding does it need?
I suspect you’re mistaking commercial companies pretending to be doing open source with actual community-driven open source.
6 replies →
Simple Mobile makes apps like file managers and image galleries. Just how much work is required to maintain this besides keeping the file access API up to date? Not sure if that's even had any breaking changes on Android in the past several years.
2 replies →
I want the maintainers to stop "enhancing" them. These tools don't do much, and they don't need to do more. That's the whole point.
Unless the authors themselves set those expectations...
The "Pro" versions are free on F-Droid, but paid via play store.
There's something fishy with this company, people report getting charged without asking, however all the positive reviews of said company is from specifically app devs who sold their app to this company![0]
[0]https://www.trustpilot.com/review/zipoapps.com?page=2
This company operates in the same waters are Taboola and Outbrain so 'fishy' would be an understatement.
This is pretty sad, I'm an avid user of a few of these tools. Seems like one of the main contributors is going to make a fork! https://github.com/SimpleMobileTools/General-Discussion/issu...
A contributor of the Project forked it: https://github.com/FossifyX
Announcement: https://github.com/SimpleMobileTools/General-Discussion/issu...
Many moons ago, an acquaintance sold his app account ( with apps like battery saver apps etc ) to an Israeli company. As i recall, in that case, the acquisition was for data-harvesting purposes.
Simple gallery of all apps on my phone were ones which always worked, from f droid, without any hitch, handled like 20k photos like a champ and had "hidden folder" thing. I love this thing.
Glad their is a fork. I don't use other apps, they are either feature incomplete or not intuitive but gallery is solid 10.
Hope we can maintain the fork
Yeah it is the only good gallery app for android. Other alternatives don't offer the same level of features.
"How much does your data cost? We know the price" was posted on their blog very recently
https://www.simplemobiletools.com/blog/how-much-does-your-da...
For context on how bad this acquistion is, here are 2 apps currently published by ZipoApps:
Speedometer: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.digitalspe...
Material Status Bar: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.treydev.ms...
Both of which have and I know this sounds insane, contain a $16 a week subscription fee.
Developer mentions the abysmal state of Android development and where it's headed as one cause in a comment. That's honestly relatable. Some of those apps are the best available on the platform (the pro gallery especially so), I'm sure the fork will do fine even in maintenance mode as it's mostly feature complete. F-Droid may be slow with releases and have a few annoyances but it remains the best and most trustworthy store—on Google's you'd never see this coming until the incoming ad/spyware is installed on your phone, those acquisitions are predatory with user data.
For reference, he explicitly mentions it in [0][1].
[0]: https://github.com/SimpleMobileTools/General-Discussion/issu... [1]: https://github.com/SimpleMobileTools/General-Discussion/issu...
Ouch. I sponsored the developer on GitHub for a few months precisely because I realized that we need to support independent developers who are in the trenches building un-sexy software like SMS, Gallery, Calendar, etc. I don't blame them for selling, but it does leave a bad taste in my mouth...
We need a Mozilla-type organization that is a nonprofit and focuses on open-source computing tools and apps. Operating system, file managers, galleries, email clients, the works.
The sad reality is that Mozilla once did all these things, but lack of funding meant that many efforts were eventually discontinued. As great as Mozilla is, they too are effectively 'captured' due to their reliance on Google funding. Firefox is the only browser that doesn't support installing PWAs, which is unbelievable, and almost certainly a move made to please Google.
How would you create a Mozilla-type (and presumably size) organisation, without getting into the same funding-related issues? From my perspective, the FOSS funding does not scale with the effort required, unless a for-profit funds it. Government grants are also used, but they cannot be viewed as a steady source of income.
Mozilla pays executives highly while cutting programming jobs.
Concerning to see that the author does not realize they cannot relicense GPL code without contributor consent.
They "can" because nothing will happen to them. Is anyone really going to sue?
Not to the guy that sold, no. I expect if the new owners try to change the license people will actually care though on the principle of the matter.
1 reply →
There is a similar project that is still active. Note that I don't use any of these apps. Just thought I'd share: https://you-apps.net/
What if they suddenly change just like simpletools? Also they don't have similar apps like simpletools
Are these the last apps on the planet that does not have some sort of data mining in their pipeline?
Cynical view emerging here; Most elites don't lose during inflation.
The small creators are the ones facing financial pressure and difficult decisions... and that's when you snap up their products.
One of the contributors has forked the apps (GPL) and you can sponsor them here:
https://github.com/sponsors/naveensingh/
A good way to avoid this kind of thing is to sponsor the open source software you use regularly.
My personal rule is if I use something every day I should sponsor it.
Are the recent releases safe?
no idea: I uninstalled them and installed from F-droid.
Careful, Play Store might decide to update them anyway if the have same package name.
1 reply →
In today’s economy, if you don’t pay for your oss apps they might be sold to the highest bidder at some point.
Or, as it turns out, even if you do.
I paid for these apps, and supported the author on Patreon.
even so, you haven't lost anything. The old version will remain, at least until google decides the app is too old for the OS to support.
Keep a copy of the APK and block automatic updates. Don't support anything that doesn't work without phoning home. That's what I'd do in today's economy.
Fork 'em
If they are open source, then someone will publish a fork and that’s it, problem solved.
If that doesn’t happen, it means they weren’t an open source project, but a commercial one with an open repo, and so weren’t sustainable anyway.
Is the f-droid account part of the sale too? Will f-droid users be compromised?
F-Droid works like the Debian repos: F-Droid builds are not built by the developer, they are built by F-Droid volunteers from source. They don't accept pre-built applications.
Note: this is open source, available from F-droid.
It hurts most because it was one of the few open source projects I regularly donated to.
[dead]
[dead]
[flagged]