Comment by toyg

It is interesting to note there are about as many Jews in the US as there are in Israel. There are about 7.6 million Jews in the United States [1]. There are about 8 million Jews in Israel [2].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Jews

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel

To say the west threw them in Israel, forgets to mention the mizrahi Jews who are 50% the Jewish-Israel population and were kicked out/ethnically cleansed from Arab countries.

The US was extremely late to offering any kind of safe haven to Jews. Even when it did, it was a single town in upstate NY.

Only about a thousand jewish refugees were let into the United States.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/11/nyregion/oswego-jewish-re...

In 1947 there was a British rule. Before that the region was ruled by the Ottomans for some 400 years. Palestinians weren't self-governing at any point before the Oslo accords in the early 90s.

No one threw the Jews into Israel. The Balfour Declaration was the result of decades of Zionist lobbying.

Zionism is a very complex topic, and some elements seem quite murky.

But I certainly agree with your final point. Ignoring the religious angle, in terms of political dynamics this seems to be a fairly straightforward case of extremist nationalism.

> Hamas was wrong to attack Israel.

I am against all violence and murder of civilians, but per international law, Hamas resistance fighters[1] had every right to attack Israel, the occupying power, but not civilians. And, as more comes out, there are more questions about who is responsible for the majority of the civilian casualties in the Hamas resistance fighter's attack. E.g., hundreds of the 1400 originally reported Israeli victims of the Hamas attacks have now been identified as Palestinian Hamas resistance fighters "burned beyond all recognition" [by Israeli forces]. And, the majority of Hamas targets were military. Whereas nearly 100% of the Israeli targets in the current massacre are civilians (including literally babies in incubators); the majority of the murdered have been women and children.

And, per international law, Israel, as occupying power, does not have a "right to defend itself" against the occupied Palestinians.

The International Criminal Court was investigating Israel for past crimes against humanity, but the Chief Prosecutor was replaced with one more friendly to the Zionists (no doubt under US pressure). Past Israeli activities and especially the current massacre is textbook genocide per international law, and while Israel refuses to sign onto the the ICC, Palestine has (which provides jurisdiction), but even if it hadn't, universal jurisdiction for crimes against humanity such as the genocide being perpetrated by Israel allow for the prosecution of Israel's crimes. Israeli leaders (and hopefully soldiers) will eventually be brought to justice (as well as those who facilitated the genocide like Joe Biden, Anthony Blinken, Ursula von der Leyen, Nearly all Democratic members of congress and all Republican members of congress and many many more).

[1]There is also a lot of confusing Hamas the political wing with Hamas the militant resistance fighters. These are distinct, and there is good evidence that the political wing of Hamas was unaware the attacks were going to happen until after they had occurred. Think of it as Sinn Féin political wing of IRA vs. IRA resistance fighters, fighting the English colonizers, in Ireland. The political wing Hamas, is the democratically elected government of Gaza.

> The important issue here is the obviously shrinking pseudo-state of Palestine.

Yes, the Arab states started wars to conquer the holy land from the Jews, and lost. Do you really think that if they had won anybody would be talking about how the Jewish state is shrinking? Losing territory in a war that they started in order to gain territory is somehow controversial?

> Israel continues to send settlers to the West Bank.

Israel has never sent a single citizen to settle the West Bank. People have moved to the West Bank of their own accord, which by the way is legal and encouraged under the legal frameworks applicable to the area (Ottoman law actually, because everything since had been mandate or occupation). But the state has not and does not move people.

Israel hasn't expanded its border by an inch since 1967.

It also left Gaza in 2005, forcibly extracting settlers, and left no military presence. In Gaza, in every real sense, Israel contracted its borders.

That is not how I would characterize giving a couple million Palestinians, who are apparently mostly kids, a better quality of life.

They do have the right to decide if they accept refugees, but the justification is inconsistent and odd. Do the countries accepting refugees from Ukraine support ethnic cleansing there? Or same for any other conflict?

There also a similar weird gulf between the shouts about 'genocide' and the refusal to allow any to escape. Someone who truly believes that should always allow for refugees. I guess most people making these claims don't really believe them and except Israel to maintain reasonable-enough treatment.

My point is it is deeply felt up to the point of actual sacrifice, either in the form of lives waging a war on behalf of Palestinians, or in the form of money re-homing them.