Comment by ok123456
2 years ago
Why should we in the West support a religious ethnostate? No government has the divine right to exist. Governments succeed or fail by the will of those who live there.
2 years ago
Why should we in the West support a religious ethnostate? No government has the divine right to exist. Governments succeed or fail by the will of those who live there.
Please go and look at the ethnic makeup of Israel. It’s not an ethnostate. And even if it were there’s many that are supported by the west that are ethnostates. That’s not a reason to not support someone.
Please go and look at the ethnic makeup of the government of Israel. Please go and look at the stated policies of the government of Israel.
The non-Jewish populations are only allowed to exist so long as they provide labor and are second-class citizens under the law.
Uhhhh, actually, please do that yourself? There is an Arab party in knesset arguing that Israel shouldn’t exist, not sure what else you could even ask for.
Only Jewish people have full citizenship rights in Israel. There are "jews only" streets there.
That kind of stuff doesn't fly in a non-ethnostate.
This is simply not true. I know why the anti-Israeli lobby repeats it, but it is not true.
Israel has a population of around 2 million Arab Muslims. They have full citizenship, serve in the police and army, are represented in the Knesset, serve as judges and one of them sits on the Supreme Court. One of them won the Miss Israel competition a while back. Does that sound much like a Jewish ethnostate?
Do you know what the Jewish populations were in Arab states back in the 1940s? It was about 800,000. It’s only the fact that the state of Israel existed, and gave them somewhere to flee to, that so many managed to escape with their lives.
It is true there were expulsions of palestinians during the 1948 invasion by the Arab armies, which is abhorrent, but this was in the context of a concerted, explicitly declared attempt at mass ethnic cleansing of the Jews. They were literally fighting to exist. Then-Secretary-General of the Arab League Abdul Rahman Azzam, said, "This will be a war of destruction and a great massacre." Other Arab leaders made it clear they intended to kill or expel the entire Jewish population, a policy which they actually carried out in their own countries. So we know this wasn’t just rhetoric, where they could do it, they did.
It's codified in law they're second-class citizens. See the "Nation State Law".
The Nakba.
The legal code and constitution also guarantees equal rights under the law. Can you cite an example of an Israeli Arab being denied any legal right due to that law?
Don’t get me wrong, I wish that law didn’t exist. It’s a mistake, but it’s mostly posturing by the Jewish nationalist faction.
The nakba was an appalling catastrophe. It shouldn’t have happened. But then the Arab invasion with the explicit aim of killing and expelling the Jews shouldn’t have happened either. Nor should the expulsion of 800,000 Jews from Arab countries. They were all terrible disasters. The world would be a better place if they hadn’t happened, but they did. Now we live in the world of today.
Are the Arab countries going to let the descendants of their Jewish populations back, and return the property and land confiscated from them? Are they going to grant them citizenship and let them serve in the police, army and judiciary with full democratic rights?
15 replies →
Is this a joke? Do you not know of the occupied territories like Hebron? Like dude, go on Youtube and if you just search "hebron surveillance" you'll find NUMEROUS videos of how it is literally the most surveilled city in the World. Just 10 seconds of ANY video will show you how much of an apartheid regime Israel is. What you've described is all smoke and mirror.
And if you want to understand even an ounce of the terrorism that Israeli soldiers commit against Palestinians in occupied territory, what better way than to listen straight from the mouths of ex-IDF soldiers? Well, good news for you, ex-IDF soliders in early 2000 created an org called "Breaking the silence". Look it up. THere you'll find over 300 video confessions + 200 text confessions of IDF confessing to acts of terrorism. Examples include occupying a home just to watch the World Cup, or to sleep in it while ALL the family sits in one room. Using children as human shields to do their search operations. They literally coined the term "neighborhood procedure" where they use Palestinians to knock on suspected "terrorists" homes to scout them out (Such cowards). You'll come across videos of soldiers confessing to killing an innocent man on the rooftop bc he looked at them weird. Or killing a child 40 min after he threw a molotov. I mean the list goes on and on. All that I described are from the video confessions. No propaganda. No BS. All straight from ex-IDF soldiers. Watch the videos on "Breaking the silence" and then come tell me Israel is not an apartheid regime.
And wow, the utter lies and falsehood you're spreading. Arab leaders wanted to kill or expel the entire Jewish population? Really? Okay. Listen. Jews, Muslims and Christians co-existed peacefully under Muslims rule for 1300 or so years. And then all of a sudden you're telling me Arab leaders just felt like wanting to genocide Jews? LOL You do realize that Muslims protected the Jews the most right? From being persecuted? There are literally so many Jewish scholars like Dean Phillip Bell who've written books and papers on how the Jews THRIVED under Muslim rule. Not only that, scholars like Dean Phillip Bell actually say that Jews experienced something like the golden age just like Islam did under Islamic rule in Spain. Until the Christian massacred and drove everyone away.
Also, the Muslims conquered the lands of Jerusalem in 638 AD where the first Islamic Caliphate, Umar Ibn Khattab, besieged the city and the Christians surrendered. He took over without bloodshed. When Umar Ibn Khattab asked them, where are the Jews? He was surprised to hear they were all slaughtered or driven away by the Byzantine Christians sometime around 138-150 AD. He said, bring 20 Jewish families and establish them here. No lands were stolen, nothing was taken, no forced conversions were made. Jews Christians and Muslims co-existed. Then the Christian crusaders came in the 11th century and SLAUGHTERED everyone, Muslims AND Jews. Then, Islamic leader Salahuddin came 150-200 years later and liberated Jerusalem. Again, same thing. No lands were taken, no forced conversions. He even spared the Christians who slaughtered everyone 150 years ago. Then the Ottomons came and ruled over from 14 or 15th century and implemented the Millet system where every religious community had their own government. Again, Jews, Christians and Muslims co-existed. Then it allll went down hill from 1917 onwards. I won't go into details but it lead to the Nakba in 1948, where British soldiers were commanded to evict Palestinians. 750K Palestinians displaced. Tens of thousands were killed. Women were raped (watch Tarantulla, watch the Jewish soliders ADMIT TO THIS).
And then you tell us and the rest of the people that "Oh these Arab leaders man, they wanted to kill the entire Jewish population look how evil they are". BULLSH*T. Such lies. Shame on you. You literally cannot reference any material here where you can confidently say Jews were persecuted by Muslims en masse pre-1917. I bet you 100%.
There's a series of interviews with Arab Israelis on youtube. "Arab Israelis: Are you living under occupation?". You can hear them give their own accounts of what life is like for them. It's a mixed bag of course, but they hardly come across as being crushingly oppressed, and many of them outright say they're treated largely the same. Some say they live under occupation, other's don't.
It would be interesting to try this with jewish citizens of Arab countries, but oh well.