Comment by jhallenworld
2 years ago
I've been watching Project Ask recently:
https://www.youtube.com/@CoreyGilShusterAskProject/videos
It's fascinating to hear opinions on the ground from both sides. Some things I've learned or concluded:
Young Palestinians are much more radical than older ones, who seem more flexible.
I personally think the two-state solution is a non-starter, and watched these videos to see if a one state solution is at all viable (meaning make Palestinians into Israeli citizens with full rights- basically the Zionists conquered the land, but they must also take the people). The problem is that neither side wants this.
Many Jewish Israelis think the Arabs would outnumber them due to birth rate, but recently Ultra-Orthodox Jews have an even higher birth rate, and Palestinian birth rate has fallen (I speculate due to increased education). Extremist settlers absolutely won't have it, and there is rampant racism. Palestinians want the Jews gone from their lands, but when pressed would probably accept those of Palestinian descent.
Sadly, I think we are going to continue with the one state with Apartheid. And, an interesting thing has happened in post-Apartheid South Africa: the realization that they are collectively poor, and not a rich first world country. One example from SA is that the electrical infrastructure was sized for only the whites, now that the full population is counted, there is just not enough, it's a big current problem. Any per-capita measurement of Israel should include the Palestinians to see the depth of this problem.
> Sadly, I think we are going to continue with the one state with Apartheid
The situation is not like Apartheid in South Africa.
In Apartheid, the white minority controlled South Africa, and did things like denying the black majority the vote.
In contrast, Israel has a ~20% Arab minority (excluding Gaza and West Bank). The rights of that minority are respected. Arabs can vote in Israel, and in fact there is an Arab party in the Israeli parliament.
Gaza was largely self governing until the Oct 7th attacks. Israel has not shown any desire to "rule" Gaza.
> In contrast, Israel has a ~20% Arab minority (excluding Gaza and West Bank).
I'm reminded of an anecdote (probably false) of when someone was asked in an interview why all manhole covers are round. He replied that not all manhole covers are round. They countered "Well, just consider the round ones".
Well Gaza is self governing (or was, until Oct 7th). Israel can't (couldn't) impose apartheid on Gaza any more than France imposes apartheid on Germany by being a separate country with borders.
West Bank is more complicated, but the same concept applies.
If Israel was motivated by racist or other tendencies to want to impose apartheid, they would start with the areas they have full control over. Why would they allow Arab voting if they are trying to impose apartheid?
2 replies →
All analogies are wrong, but humans use them as thought devices.
Let's just say that on a scale of 1 to apartheid it's not a 1.
[flagged]
[flagged]
Have you thought about why young Palestinians have a different opinion from older ones? The opinion of powerless people is not set in stone, but is often a reaction to things outside of their control.
Direct experience? Learning from their parents? Typical young person reaction to perceived injustice? Dangerous to have a differing opinion?
They have internet, but unfortunately it's not a force for moderation.
Older ones used to be able to work in Israel as migrant workers.
After the 2nd Intifada and Hamas's takeover of Gaza, Israel cracked down on Palestinian migrant workers and began importing labor from Thailand, Nepal, and other countries.