Comment by nielsbot
2 years ago
I guess I meant pro-Palestine in the context of the comment I was responding to--but sure, saying Palestinian could be considered fuzzy. I my mind I meant the people who were forced out of Israel and their descendants living in Gaza, the West Bank and elsewhere.
> I my mind I meant the people who were forced out of Israel and their descendants living in Gaza, the West Bank and elsewhere.
Even this definition is associated with what seems to me to be a biased agenda, for two different reasons.
First, while the history seems pretty muddled, I don’t think all the people (or their ancestors, anyway) were forced out of what is modern Israel, nor is it particularly clear that Israel or those fighting on Israel’s side did anywhere near 100% of the forcing.
Second, there’s something quite bizarre about the “elsewhere” part of this. As an analogy, there’s a rather notable war going on, and there is a group of opinions referred to as “pro-Russian.” I suspect that most people with Russian ancestors but who live far from Russia, including those whose ancestors were, in some sense, forced out, do not want to be lumped in with the “pro-Russian” opinion. A lot of them don’t identify as Russian except by heritage. None of them get to vote in Russian elections, I imagine that very few of them would want to vote in Russian elections, and precious few indeed would want anything to do with a unified Russian + Ukraine.
Now I don’t know how actual people of Palestinian heritage but who live far from Palestine feel, and I bet it’s generally pretty complicated. But I think a lot of nuance is lost here.
Here’s an interesting article:
https://rli.blogs.sas.ac.uk/2021/07/20/refugee-ever-after-wh...
It's not muddled. I doesn't have to be that 100% of the people living on Gaza are refugees from Israel for the current situation to be an atrocity. I am also not saying every Israeli is responsible for that atrocity.
I also don't think Russia/Ukraine is comparable to Israel/Gaza. I find it hard to believe Palestinians living far from Gaza/West Bank/Middle East would have anything but total sympathy for those in Gaza... but that's just a feeling.
Thanks for the link.
I certainly agree that the current situation is atrocious, in many respects. Certainly what is happening in Gaza right now is an atrocity.
I’m mainly saying that calling that opinion “Pro-Palestine” or “Pro-Palestinian” seems problematic. There has been no particular shortage of screaming matches in the US in which people accuse other people of being horrible for not being correctly pro- or anti- the right things, and I think this encourages factionalism where none need exist.
My point re: Russia and Ukraine isn’t that that situations are analogous. It’s that one’s heritage may be quite different from where one is now, what views one has, where one wants to live, etc.