Comment by megous
2 years ago
> On the flip side, Jewish populations have been expelled (or worse) throughout the middle east. Israel rationally fears an unlimited right to return or a single state solution that results in them being demographically swamped. Further, we're talking about radicalized populations that no other neighboring state wants to accept-- Egypt does not want Gaza back. States in the Arab world remembers Black September.
Yes, everyone has legitimate fears. I just don't see how the current AI assisted military operation of killing all of "Hamas" members and their families, will help deradicalize the population. Or how making Gaza unlivable will help assuage the fears of surrounding Arab countries around uncontrolled mass immigration, or lead to two-state solution that Israel rejects outright, at the moment.
> I just don't see how the current AI assisted military operation of killing all of "Hamas" members and their families,
I don't think Israel has done perfectly, but I do think they have a pretty low amount of collateral damage for fighting in an urbanized area. Keep in mind the "civilian" casualties numbers for Palestine come from Hamas-controlled entities, and count all fatalities as civilians.
> will help deradicalize the population
I think the current situation with Hamas on top reaches pretty much peak radicalization possible. It doesn't serve Palestinians well, either, being a kleptocracy that is systematically stealing aid for personal enrichment and terrorism.
Leaving things as they were wasn't a great option; negotiating with Hamas wasn't an option; attempting to contain Hamas and wait them out has proven to be a really bad option.
> or lead to two-state solution that Israel rejects outright, at the moment.
There's no doubt that Netanyahu and Israel's right are terrible.
> pretty low amount of collateral damage for fighting in an urbanized area. Keep in mind the "civilian" casualties numbers for Palestine come from Hamas-controlled entities
I am not sure about what you mean by "pretty low" collateral damage when almost half of the infrastructure of Gaza has been damaged or destroyed, including historical and heritage sites. More than 17,000 Palestinians have been killed, around 70% being women and children. I guess those "civillian" casualties are militants to you.
It is also disingenuous to say that the casualty numbers cannot be trusted as they are from "Hamas-controlled" entities when historically the numbers the Gazan health ministry gave has tallied with Israeli numbers in every war prior. It is like conflating that the FDA cannot be trusted if Trump said not to get vaccines, because they are under the same government. Different agencies are not held to the same standard and they might not have the same goals, Hamas is mainly a military wing, while the Gazan health ministry cares for the health and survival of their people.
Also, Israel keeps track of every person born and dead in Gaza, they have state-wide surveillance there, they could have chosen to send in surgical strike forces and taken out the militants strategically, but instead chose to carry out one of the heaviest bombardments in the current decades. Netanyahu has also said their military won't leave Gaza, after the war. Seems like they plan to expand their West Bank Occupation operations to Gaza.
> 17,000 Palestinians have been killed, around 70% being women and children.
Unfortunately, 1) these numbers come from Hamas; 2) count militants; 3) a large fraction of "children" appear to be militants.
> while the Gazan health ministry cares for the health and survival of their people.
Every real government tracks civilian and military deaths separately. Here we're given one misleading lump of a number (that includes significant incentive to lie).
> Also, Israel keeps track of every person born and dead in Gaza, they have state-wide surveillance there, they could have chosen to send in surgical strike forces and taken out the militants strategically,
I think this is unrealistic and any effort to do so would be suicide.
> Netanyahu has also said their military won't leave Gaza, after the war.
Netanyahu has said just about every possible thing depending upon whom he's been talking to. There's no disagreement he and his government are trash.
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