Comment by umvi
2 years ago
Seems like you should ban the manufacturing methods, not the end product. Like, if I invent a way to safely manufacture and do on-site adjustments of engineered stone, shouldn't I be rewarded by the market for it? The material itself is not harmful, just breathing the dust of it is, which can be said of a lot of things in a common household.
Do you think that folks will install it on site without cutting it?
I've just had two engineered stone counter tops installed. In both cases (different companies) the fitters came and made a template from thick card of the exact size for the top. the tops arrived and fit precisely. One had to have holes for cut in, but I didn't hang around to see if they fitter used PPE
When I picked out my slab, went to the place where they locally manufactured the countertop to the specs of the kitchen. No one was wearing PPE. Installers just dropped it in and didnt need to do anything.
As far as countertops go, field cuts are rather uncommon. Laser templating works well.
Holes on the other hand tend to be done in the field. But, people don't wear PPE even though it's simple and easy to do.
Due to lack of tech work I've been installing stone countertops. I can confirm we cut on site around half the time, microplastics galore (you can smell the polyester in the air).
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I’ve watched a contractor cut holes in a countertop in the field. They did it wet. I’d still wear safety glasses if I were doing this, but IIRC there was no dust.
I’ve never seen someone cut a countertop on site. They do it in a shop. (Why didn’t Australia instead ban all countertop cutting in shops that doesn’t use dustless tools?)
Hmm, I just looked it up. Home Depot sells the tool for under $30.
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>But, people don't wear PPE even though it's simple and easy to do.
are you saying that wearing the PPE is simple and easy to do, or did you mean they don't wear PPE because the job is so simple and easy to do?
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~6 years ago I got new countertops, and while they did the bulk of the cutting in their facility, they did do a few cuts in my front yard, creating a huge cloud of dust. The main parts of the counter arrived ready to assemble, but I think they cut a spanning piece for behind the stove, spanning the counters on either side.
My 8yo son came out to see what was going on, looked at the workers doing the cut without masks, and said "silicosis ain't no joke" and went back inside. I've taught him well.
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My exact experience! Got a hole added for water filter tap and I think he didn’t wear PPE. Had I known about this I would have ensured everyone out the house while it was being done.
> people don't wear PPE even though it's simple and easy to do
Maybe we should mandate people wear PPE, but if they decide to flaunt the rules and risk their health for no reason, I just don't really feel all that sympathetic.
In my experience in Poland you leave the stuff that has to fit in the countertop at the stonemason's workshop and they measure/test fit everything there. My guy has a bunch of (perhaps?) old machines that all do the cuts flooded with something that resembles diamond tooling or grinding wheels.
Even if they did cut on site, is that any worse than cutting natural stone?
Yes, per the article.
"Safe Work found that while silicosis cases could emerge in several industries, the numbers were "disproportionate" among engineered stone workers. Engineered stone workers also suffered a faster disease progression and were more likely to die from it, the report said."
The last time I speced something like this, they wanted exact measurements and the result arrived in exactly that shape and size. So I think you're right.
If you mandate that it has to be ordered to fit from the production facility, then yeah it's probably safer.
> If you mandate that it has to be ordered to fit from the production facility, then yeah it's probably safer.
A mandate isn't really necessary. Everyone involved has every incentive to cut stone in a shop rather than in the field.
The problem is people don't wear PPE. Guess what? Everyone already has a mandate to wear PPE.
Sometimes you can't fix stupid.
Asbestos and lead are also minimal risk undamaged in-situ. Both are now banned, and for good reason.
One difference is that stone countertops are not a danger to homeowners or people doing future basic renovation.
But they are - and the article mentions it. Alterations years later will still Produce dust.
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"Undamaged" is the key word there; asbestos at least seems very easy to damage. Is the same true for engineered stone? And even if you do damage it, I would expect it would not kick up enough dust to be a problem.
Asbestos was banned but lead is still used in many things.
It’s been banned in new residential construction since 1978.
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Wood dust is also dangerous... Basically you should just try to breath air and not solids
Exactly. Or more precisely, ban the net effect (putting the dust into the air), and then people can find the best alternative given that constraint, whether it's a better manufacturing/installation process that doesn't put the dust into the air, or a product that doesn't produce the dust in the first place.
This was considered but the problem is it’s very difficult to enforce in practice
The product is generally installed onsite in a fast paced building industry that doesn’t have time/room to do it properly and often no supervision (1-2 often independent trades doing the installs) to ensure the appropriate measures are actually taken.
The risk has already been known for a while and in practice still lots of “YOLO” onsite cutting without even respirators.
So hold the people intentionally violating safety practices accountable.
This reeks of unnecessary heavy-handedness that hurts everyone. The specified natural alternative (granite) is nearly half silica and is a known health hazard.
All this regulation does is allow sloppy work that'll kill people a little more slowly.
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Why not just make employers fully responsible in case any of their workers develop silicosis?
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Yes. They should have just banned or limited dry cutting. Cutting stone wet, with running water, produces practically no dust whatsoever.