> when one side gives up.
> disproportionality of this conflict
Why is disproportionality meaningful at all? Clearly Israel is under attack. They have full right to subdue those attacks through all means necessary. I would hope every government provides the same for their people (and it is so easy to criticize Israel with all of us coming from countries that do protect our safety). Unfortunately Hamas has no regard for Palestinian lives, the best possible outcome for the Palestinians is Hamas giving up.
Why is disproportionality meaningful ? Why is 695 dead Israeli civilians against 15-20000 dead Palestinian civilians meaningful? Because it goes to the hypocritical heart of what a life is worth to a tribesman.
And no they DO NOT have full right to subdue those attacks through all means necessary. There are laws to warfare. Dropping large bombs on a densely populated area of civilians is a breach of those laws. Find another way to get rid of Hamas but show respect civilian life.
I don't believe that this would end if Hamas released their hostages. Ultimately, it would put Palestine back to where they were before October 7th except civilians would be much worse off. Still living under Israeli occupation with limited freedom of movement, limited external assistance, etc. Except now, they'd have no hospitals, no infrastructure, housing, etc. How can a place live Gaza possibly rebuild from that?
A lack of presence does not equal a lack of control. Israel still controls Palestinian air and maritime space, telecommunications, water, electricity, and border crossings.
While Israel may not have had a military presence since 2006, their control over the region did not do the same.
> All of this would end in an instant if Hamas would give up hostages and surrender.
No, it would not. There would still be 400,000 Israeli settlers in the West Bank. Palestinians in the West Bank would still live under occupation. Do you think that situation will not also reach a boiling point and end in ethnic cleansing as fascist rhetoric in Israel increases?
Hamas is a terrorist organization deeply embedded in a dense area of 2m people. They also don't seem to care much about their people or even their own lives. If they decide to never surrender, shall Israel burn Gaza to the ground? Are those 2m people just going to become "collateral damage"?
Well thank god you'll be spared having colleagues from Gaza since Israel usually cuts off the internet there, because otherwise you'd have seen much worse than someone yelling rockets lol.
Also, I'm sure the Ukraine war would've ended if Ukraine would've just surrendered, what's your point? You realize that you could say that for basically every war ever, and that the enemy not surrendering doesn't allow you to commit war crimes? That's... literally the point.
Your comments in this thread have been crossing into flamewar and are particularly against the intended spirit that I tried to explain in the comment at the top. Please don't post more comments of this sort.
Okay sorry about that. I agree that I was 100% veering into sneering. I didn't see the top comment. I'll stop commenting and won't comment like that on a future thread!
Your comments in this thread have been crossing into flamewar and are particularly against the intended spirit that I tried to explain in the comment at the top. Please don't post more comments of this sort.
What you are suggesting is happening, the collective punishment of a nation for terrorist acts, is a war crime:
https://guide-humanitarian-law.org/content/article/3/collect...
Hamas is the ruling party/government of Gaza.
De facto, not de jure. Hamas is not a signee of genocide convention, so ICJ has no jurisdiction over them.
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Because Netanyahu wanted it to be that way. Here's the Times of Israel debunking this propaganda line: https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up....
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Is it a terrorist act if it was performed by a democratically elected government?
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All wars end when one side gives up.
Attacks and land theft on West Bank Palestinians are at a record high too. This will only end with the creation of a viable Palestinian state.
"This is war, there will be loss of life" is such a callous way to dismiss the disproportionality of this conflict.
> when one side gives up. > disproportionality of this conflict
Why is disproportionality meaningful at all? Clearly Israel is under attack. They have full right to subdue those attacks through all means necessary. I would hope every government provides the same for their people (and it is so easy to criticize Israel with all of us coming from countries that do protect our safety). Unfortunately Hamas has no regard for Palestinian lives, the best possible outcome for the Palestinians is Hamas giving up.
Why is disproportionality meaningful ? Why is 695 dead Israeli civilians against 15-20000 dead Palestinian civilians meaningful? Because it goes to the hypocritical heart of what a life is worth to a tribesman.
And no they DO NOT have full right to subdue those attacks through all means necessary. There are laws to warfare. Dropping large bombs on a densely populated area of civilians is a breach of those laws. Find another way to get rid of Hamas but show respect civilian life.
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I don't believe that this would end if Hamas released their hostages. Ultimately, it would put Palestine back to where they were before October 7th except civilians would be much worse off. Still living under Israeli occupation with limited freedom of movement, limited external assistance, etc. Except now, they'd have no hospitals, no infrastructure, housing, etc. How can a place live Gaza possibly rebuild from that?
> where they were before October 7th except civilians would be much worse off. Still living under Israeli occupation with limited freedom of movement
Israel hasn't had any presence in Gaza for nearly 20 years.
A lack of presence does not equal a lack of control. Israel still controls Palestinian air and maritime space, telecommunications, water, electricity, and border crossings.
While Israel may not have had a military presence since 2006, their control over the region did not do the same.
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> All of this would end in an instant if Hamas would give up hostages and surrender.
No, it would not. There would still be 400,000 Israeli settlers in the West Bank. Palestinians in the West Bank would still live under occupation. Do you think that situation will not also reach a boiling point and end in ethnic cleansing as fascist rhetoric in Israel increases?
Hamas is a terrorist organization deeply embedded in a dense area of 2m people. They also don't seem to care much about their people or even their own lives. If they decide to never surrender, shall Israel burn Gaza to the ground? Are those 2m people just going to become "collateral damage"?
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It isn't war. War is when two nation states fight.
This is shooting fish in a barrel with a full on propaganda campaign attached.
I think 10/7 counts as a fight, don’t you?
Maybe you should read what I wrote again. War is an official declaration between nations, not simply a "fight."
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Well thank god you'll be spared having colleagues from Gaza since Israel usually cuts off the internet there, because otherwise you'd have seen much worse than someone yelling rockets lol.
Also, I'm sure the Ukraine war would've ended if Ukraine would've just surrendered, what's your point? You realize that you could say that for basically every war ever, and that the enemy not surrendering doesn't allow you to commit war crimes? That's... literally the point.
Your comments in this thread have been crossing into flamewar and are particularly against the intended spirit that I tried to explain in the comment at the top. Please don't post more comments of this sort.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Okay sorry about that. I agree that I was 100% veering into sneering. I didn't see the top comment. I'll stop commenting and won't comment like that on a future thread!
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Your comments in this thread have been crossing into flamewar and are particularly against the intended spirit that I tried to explain in the comment at the top. Please don't post more comments of this sort.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
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