Comment by aurelien_gasser
1 year ago
> Hamas killed fewer people than Israel did/is
That's an understatement, Hamas killed less than 1,000 civilians, Israel killed 20,000+
1 year ago
> Hamas killed fewer people than Israel did/is
That's an understatement, Hamas killed less than 1,000 civilians, Israel killed 20,000+
Hamas directly and intentionally targeted civilians. Israel is doing what it can to limit civilian casualties while destroying Hamas. Hamas is making that very difficult by blending in with the population, putting command centers under major hospitals and so on.
> Hamas is making that very difficult by blending in with the population, putting command centers under major hospitals and so on.
If there's a command center under a hospital, then you don't bomb the hospital. The fact that your enemy is using "human shields" doesn't mean that it's justified to bomb and kill everyone, including the shields. Now every relative and friend of the innocent people you killed has a reason to pick up a gun against you.
Obviously this puts you at a disadvantage. Instead of bombing targets on a screen from the comfort of an air-conditioned office in Tel Aviv, you'll have to send special forces in on the ground and probably take a lot of casualties. But you demonstrate to the civilians that you're not just killing them indiscriminately.
>If there's a command center under a hospital, then you don't bomb the hospital.
Thats not what the geneva convention says.
> Israel is doing what it can to limit civilian casualties while destroying Hamas.
You should really read the parent article at the top of the page. It doesn't support this statement and the court ruling was created from a mountain of evidence.
How close does it come to intentionally targeting civilians?
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[flagged]
Not picking a side or trying to punish anyone, I'm just highlighting that the difference in the number of victims is quite significant. It would be quite a different situation if Israel had killed only sightly more Palestinian civilians than Hamas' did in their attack. Actually, I suspect that this ICJ order would not have occurred, and that there wouldn't be such widespread accusations of genocide.
I think you are reading mmuch more into that reply than is warranted.
It’s simple fact more people have now died due to Israel’s actions.
That doesn’t mean they necessarily need to be punished for it. The international community doesn’t really need to.
If this is anything like the other 10 times Israel did one of their “Let’s provision some extra terrorists” exercises, they’ve already guaranteed that they’ll deal with two or three more decades of the palestinian population hating their guts.
I march with left-leaning American Jews. Exactly zero of them are called genocidal colonizers by anyone, let alone left-leaning American progressives.
Since you are asserting the existence of something here, are you able to provide an example?
Replying here in a flagged subthread because I really do think this is important:
So... those two accusations are so commonly made and debated that they both have their own wikipedia pages:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism_as_settler_colonialism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_genocide_accusatio...
I mean, sure, you can retreat to arguments about whether it's a personal accusation or just an abstract idea, or whether I can substantiate use of the combined pharse "genocidal colonizer" (which of course I can't). But we both know that's hairsplitting.
The point I was trying to make is that there is a large population of people[1] out there who AGREE with you on virtually every practical, relevant point of public policy or international relations.... but who will never make common cause with you if they perceive your goals as the invalidation of the nationality of nine million people. There's no solution here that doesn't involve Zionists, just as there's no solution that rejects Islam.[2]
[1] And in particular people with significant influence over the Israeli policy you want to see changed!
[2] Realistically there's just no solution, and it would do well for everyone involved to recognize that and resign ourselves to the policy of just reducing immediate harm as what amounts to a BATNA.
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All Palestinians deaths are civilians by your measures.