Comment by bradgessler
2 years ago
I want iOS to be like macOS in that there's one "blessed" store, but I can sell, distribute, and install apps outside of it without giving Apple a cut.
macOS has proven for decades that a reasonably proprietary OS can be distributed and kept reasonably secure when apps are installed on it outside of an App Store. There's even third-party App Stores on macOS like Steam, Homebrew, and a few more that Indie developers use to distribute apps.
> , but I can sell, distribute, and install apps outside of it without giving Apple a cut.
I want this personally for me. But I paid extra money to get my mom an iPhone exactly because she won't be able to stuff like this.
I used to regularly have to fix her android phone and the last time she was trying to download an app for tracking hours at work, and somehow downloaded the wrong app with a similar name, this app loaded with 3 different pop ups telling her to install other ad filled apps with generic names like "PDF reader".
OP is right, it should be an explicit jailbreaking process that has a technical barrier to entry where my mom can't be talked into doing it over the phone but an enterprising young person could figure it out.
Apple has a setting in macOS that disables installing apps outside of the App Store. This would be a completely reasonable setting for iOS for less tech savvy people.
It's fine if it's the default honestly, as long as it exists as a setting you can change.
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There are plenty of junk apps in the App Store now. Apple does a good job marketing trustworthiness, but having competing app stores may at least get them to put more effort into backing it up.
Please link to a single one that installs malware or does backgrounf popups as is possible in Android.
As a heavy Linux user for most things I feel the same.
I love that I have all non tech savvy people in my life are using. Devices that just work, they all seem happy too. I get the idealistic nature of these lawsuits but people buy these phones for the fact they work and for the protected App Store. Including myself.
I used to regard myself highly as somewhat of an expert in tech, with my relatives and friends as a reference. I would spend days (cumulatively, weeks) customizing and locking down my Windows and Linux machines. I could not imagine paying for a closed product if an open alternative was available, even if it meant more ongoing hassle.
At first I got into Apple’s ecosystem because it ticked the boxes of being Unix-compatible yet very capable (perhaps rivaling Windows) of working with multimedia, which I did and do.
However, the older I get and the more I lurk here and elsewhere, the more I realize there is another reason: I am not an expert, the aforementioned weeks spent on securing my device are not substantially benefitting my life and are better spent on something else, and while no one should completely give up on keeping up-to-date with modern attack vectors paying someone to do that work more competently is worthwhile.
I still go to crazy lengths to avoid closed products in actual work I do, but I consider a base system that is maybe proprietary but just works, and securely enough, to be providing value in that way and enabling me to provide more value in turn.
And I still consider myself more knowledgeable than 95% of my friends and relatives, so there’s them to think about.
Are you suggesting your Mom has/would have the same experience on macOS? For whatever reason it doesn't seem to be as much of an issue.
It probably doesn't need to be as cumbersome as a jailbreak. Maybe it's just a "Allow apps not approved by Apple" toggle hidden deep in the settings. I actually would love the ability to set "IT administrator account" on device setup. Then mom can't even change the setting without notifying "dmix" :)
Now, everyone bow to dmix'es preferences about his mom.
If you want to child-lock you mom's phone, you should have the ability to do so. Default for adults getting any sort of hardware should be that they are in charge, and any nanny should be opt-in.
You can buy an android if you want. Nothing stops you.
I like how iOS works and I would prefer the government does not force Apple to change anything about it.
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It’s awful twisted that the people trying to use government fiat to reduce consumer choice and narrow the range of acceptable business models try to cloak themselves in the language of rights and freedoms.
Just not the freedom to choose a walled garden (with its own set of - yes - positives). That choice needs to be taken away. For your freedom.
One might say - managed freedom.
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Your mom would have to go out of her way to find and install a separate app store. You could make it give all sorts of warnings that would scare off a non-tech user like your mom.
IMO the issue is that people get tricked into doing stuff like this. Elderly people seem even more vulnerable.
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Apple app store has the exact same problems. There was even a post on HN last week about an scam app being the first result in the app store.
I urge you to ask anyone who provides technical support to the elderly or tech inept what the split is iOS to Android RE scams, malware etc. Nobody's arguing the app store is perfect, but "the exact same problems" is absolutely an incorrect statement.
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This seems reasonable and I like the idea of unlocking the capabilities the hardware already has. What makes iPhone different from Xbox, Playstation, Nintendo Switch?
We should be forcing game consoles to open up as well. As well as every other computing device that you can purchase.
This is Hacker News; maximizing the freedom to hack our own property is an inviolable position.
This is mostly as simple as striking out DMCA 1201. The device maker need not bless the activity so long as they do not have a cudgel with which to threaten users from modifying their own devices they bought.
I agree we should force platforms to be more.open and interoperable, but we can get at least part way there by not allowing them to sue innovators.
> macOS has proven for decades that a reasonably proprietary OS can be distributed and kept reasonably secure when apps are installed on it outside of an App Store.
That’s not really true. Despite the dangers of centralized app censorship, the state of security on iOS is far beyond that of macOS.
iOS also has even more security threats, because a phone is in your pocket and has GPS, and your laptop isn't.
Also, macOS has like 13% market share vs 60% for iOS - in USA.
It’s reasonably secure because no one has bothered to write malware for it.
But there was nothing on the Mac stopping Zoom from putting a backdoor web server on Macs.
Apple could revoke Zoom's signing certificate, if they were discovered to be doing this.
That's the thing: they were. Apple did act, but not by revoking the certificate.
https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/10/20689644/apple-zoom-web-s...
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Open source store would be nice. Apple reviews the release ($$$), builds on their server and guarantees it does what it says it does.
This would be lovely. As far as I know, right now its entirely possible for an app developer to show clean, trustworthy code on github. And then ship an app bundle on the app store which contains malware.
I'd love it if Apple provided a way to protect against this sort of thing.