Comment by smt88
2 years ago
I know many people won't read past the headline, but please try to.
This is the second paragraph:
"In addition to talking about their use of the AI system, called Lavender, the intelligence sources claim that Israeli military officials permitted large numbers of Palestinian civilians to be killed, particularly during the early weeks and months of the conflict."
Yeah the AI is probably the most ethical part of this operation. The human leadership decided that no amount of collateral damage was too much.
The AI is as ethical as the humans training it.
Well yeah, they have an “unspoken” 10 to 1 rule about taking 10 Palestinian lives for each Israeli loss.
in the article they say it's explicit and it's 20 to 1 and goes to 100 to 1 for some targets. which makes it obvious it's not a rule but an order of magnitude to estimate the importance of a target. you know like when we use the Fibonacci suite as a measure for the difficulty of a backlog item during the planning game
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It sounds like you think they should have autonomy and a democratic state, which most of the world also agrees with.
I think the implication is that Gaza does have semi-autonomy (it is a complicated situation - there's a blockade, but it has security autonomy within its region. Or did before October 7th).
And Gaza was pushed towards democratic elections, which they held, elected Hamas, and Hamas hasn't permitted a democracy since then.
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"Democratic" is pushing it a tad too far—none of the Islamic world follows a rule of law that would be something akin to a democracy; they're monarchies, theocracies, or in many cases autocracies. The only actual democracy in the middle east is—well, Israel.
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The West Bank serves as an example of that and also what happens without violent resistance:
The ethnic cleansing happens anyway, followed up by settlers.
Not having a governing body that genuinely works for their interests does not invalidate their rights as humans.
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> What can one do when criminals have embedded them self in the civilian population? Why don't they get out and meet the police on the battle field?
We wouldn't tolerate a SWAT team blowing up a hospital if the mafia had taken over the basement, I have no idea why you think this is acceptable.
> It is much better than the carpet bombing used by other nations.
It is exactly like the carpet bombing used by other nations.
> We wouldn't tolerate a SWAT team blowing up a hospital if the mafia had taken over the basement, I have no idea why you think this is acceptable.
While I agree with comparing Hamas to the mafia, both are criminal organizations, Hamas is more than that. It has rockets, it mascaraed civilians and holds the ideology of genociding its enemy. None of that is applicable to the mafia. So if its people are hiding in an hospital and refuse to surrender there is no moral objection to blow up the hospital (Also, if you are referring to Shifa Hospital, Israel didn't blow it, they entered with SWAT teams and there were fierce fighting costing also Israeli soldiers lives)
> It is exactly like the carpet bombing used by other nations. I'll link to Wikipedia to help you spot the differences [0]
[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpet_bombing
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Would Israel blow an israeli hospital if Hamas took the basement?
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Because this is war and not a SWAT police operation?
If soldiers in the field have reason to believe the enemy is in a building and call in air support to bomb it, no part of that is a war crime. Even if someone later goes and discovers the people in that building were actually preschoolers; what matters is what the people in the field making the decisions knew at that moment.
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The whole point of this article (and much of what we've learned in the last few months) is that Israel is clearly not just targeting areas with suspected Hamas activity.
They're using indiscriminate weapons (so not targeting at all!), hitting known UN and humanitarian sites, and killing so ruthlessly that they killed Israeli hostages that made the mistake of being living humans in front of IDF soldiers.
Not only are they indescriminately killing, they are purposefully targeting and murdering aid workers that coordinated WITH THE IDF before entering the area.
"…were traveling in a convoy that had been coordinated with the Israel Defense Forces and was following an IDF-approved route. The vehicles had GPS trackers and SOS beacons broadcasting their positions"
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/idf-strike-on-gaza-aid-...
>This is no different than chemotherapy
Say that to the parents of the aid workers whose vehicle was used as a bullseye: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68711282
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awful take
Do you justify killing civilians? That's disgusting.
Neither Isrealis nor Hamas believe it's their duty to prevent civilian Palestinian deaths in this conflict. At this point anyone that can do anything to improve the situation are the civilians themselves by social distancing from Hamas associates by at least the typical blast radius. Athough I don't imagine this would be very effective as well.
They permitted larger numbers of civilians being killed in the pursuit of terrorist barbarics who raped and murdered and dragged babies with their mothers into underground dungeons, and praised themselves for that while hiding between civilians.
Why did the civilians deserve to die because of what the terrorists did?
If this is about the hostages, why hasn't Israel agreed to more ceasefires to save them?
Please stop spreading nonsensical, thoroughly debunked claims such as rape.
Rapes have been officially recognized as having happened by the UN, i don’t see how that is hard to believe given Hamas filmed most of their atrocities on GoPros. Oct 7 was a brutal terror campaign regardless of your position on the conflict, denying that is absurd
> Following a mission lasting just over two weeks, the UN team found 'reasonable grounds to believe' that 'rape and gang rape' took place during the attack on October 7, 2023, while acknowledging the limitations of its own investigation
https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2024/03/07/u....
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You do realize this problem didn't start on October 7?