Comment by CommieBobDole
2 years ago
It's also interesting (and I guess typical for end-users of software) how quickly and easily something like this goes from "Here's a tool you can use as an information input when deciding who to target" to "I dunno, computer says these are the people we need to kill, let's get to it".
In the Guardian article, an IDF spokesperson says it exists and is only used as the former, and I'm sure that's what was intended and maybe even what the higher-ups think, but I suspect it's become the latter.
I read that article and feel your interpretation is very misleading/wrong.
The Guardian article makes it clear prior to those denials that those higher-up appear to not to care how accurate it is and appear to be making a conscious choice to accept the fact it is highly flawed on the basis that it might kill some of whom they would legitimately claim as valid targets.
It's clear from the operational details discussed in the article the critical target number is largely number of kills, regardless of whether they are any actual material threat, or not.
Cull predominantly the male population and their family members, not assassinate active threats is the overall impression I got of the Israeli strategy.
I must add that anyone claiming the use of AI and inference models in this way is in anyway justifiable needs to seek help. The claim of 90% accuracy is almost certainly over claiming by over 100%.
20 second turnaround from target acquisition to strikes seems to guarantee it's become the latter.
Do you have enough military experience to say this? Or are you just guessing?
I’ll guarantee that it’s the latter.
I'm guessing the point they're making is that there's no human in the loop, which can confidently be claimed, even without military experience.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_says_no
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computers_Don%27t_Argue
"I'm sure that's what was intended"
Intended by who? You don't kill 13,000 children by accident.
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The median age in Gaza in 2014 was 18. According to researchers in the US, 50%-61% of buildings have been damaged or destroyed. If Israel didn't kill tens of thousands of children it would be a statistical miracle.
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The US and even Israeli governments consider these numbers as accurate. The Health Ministry provides the social ID numbers of every death so the deaths would be impossible to fake.
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This link again. People keep posting it and it keeps—rightly—getting flagged. This source is a schoolbook example of lying with statistics, and so far HN seems prerry aware of that.
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Ideally, that would be "Computer says we shouldn't kill these people, let's not".
It’s a very powerful drug to be able to shrug your shoulders and say you were just doing as you were told.
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When this latest series of attacks started there was still some room to charitably interpret what the IDF had to deal with, but we've had months of constant action and very obvious suffering and death that the IDF has been imposing upon Gaza, either intentionally or through sheer apathy. They've long since lost the "oh but think critically" excuse. The amount of suffering they are inflicting is not at all justified, it has gone far beyond just a tit-for-tat retaliation.
Since when has war ever been tit-for-tat. Since the beginning of time, if a nation where to attack and make war with another nation, they had to measure carefully the consequences if they were to lose... because losing meant losing everything. This is no different. Russia attacking Ukraine is no different. No one is tracing and counting every bullet Russia fires and certainly no world court is saying anything at all to Russia… or to Turkey, or Iran, or Syria, or anyone else… except for Israel. Gaza attacked Israel and like any nation that goes to war, they will either win or lose. Consider carefully before declaring war against your enemy…. Everything is at stake.
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It's because actions speak louder than words. The bombings Gaza has suffered is worse than Dresden during WWII. There is a famine in north Gaza. 30 000+ Palestinians have been killed. There is live footage of Palestinians waving white flags but still getting sniped by Israeli soldiers. The same soldiers that laugh while blowing up mosques and running over corpses with their bulldozers. When someone show you who they really are you should believe them.
Dresden wasn't full of guerilla army disguised as civilians, and there weren't even the tools to target specifics as we have today. Any civilian was evacuated from north Gaza 5 months ago, secured by IDF under Hamas attacks. Those who stayed there insist on sticking to a war zone and risk to be labeled as terrorists. blowing up mosques and houses is nothing compared to raping innocents with no one to defend them miles away. And while they hold hundreds of the same innocents underground and keep provoking Israel's destruction, I see no reason to care about their precious houses. Israel is judged by Western morals in a barbaric medieval war that it was dragged into.
The firebombing of Tokyo was around 100,000 dead.
Some have. Most of the IDFs current critics haven't. They get the news and conclude reasonably that the IDF deserves criticism over how it's conducting itself.
For example: "The army also decided during the first weeks of the war that, for every junior Hamas operative that Lavender marked, it was permissible to kill up to 15 or 20 civilians"
When a computer generates a target list of thousands, that's how tens of thousands of innocent people die.
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