Comment by dotnet00
2 years ago
"We all should have worked harder" is such an absurd thing to be saying alongside that sorry excuse you've presented.
The entire point of human rights and rules of war is that there are certain rights the people of even small countries that started the fight are entitled to. You don't just get to excuse relentlessly bombing hospitals and aid workers. "We thought it was a military target, but we will not disclose why, nor will we disclose what we're doing to not make this mistake in the future" is not a get out of jail free card for genocides, especially when it never seems to come with any actual signs of improvement.
Campaigns to stop genocides in other places having been unsuccessful does not justify smaller genocides taking place elsewhere. That's not critical thinking, that's whataboutism.
Particularly considering that not only is America's supposedly democratic leadership not condemning the atrocities, they're actively offering the aid to continue it while claiming to want peace.
Being from India, I can relate to the troubles with islamic terrorism that Israel has faced, which is why I mentioned having initially been sympathetic. But if India engaged in this large scale indiscriminate slaughter of muslims, it'd have been rendered a pariah on a similar tier as Russia. As it stands it's already constantly accused of being undemocratic and violating the rights of Muslims, despite never having undertaken deliberate, remorseless government sanctioned slaughter of this scale.
It took far less for the current Indian prime minister to be banned from Western nations when he was chief minister of a state. All he had to do was fail to stop a much less deadly riot and get repeatedly exonerated from accusations of wrongdoing by several courts.
Okay — what specific rules of war do you believe have been broken? …what specific atrocities?
I was responding to the demand for “tit-for-tat” and claims this was unusually brutal; neither of those are true.
You’re now making different, non—specified claims in emotionally charged language. Be specific; think critically.
I've pointed out two things, bombing hospitals and bombing aid workers.
There's also targeting children, having no qualms about the collateral damage when they bomb houses to get at single targets and so on. Using systems like the one described in the article to offload further responsibility, such that if by some miracle Western nations do try to introduce the IDF to the concept of accountability, they can just blame the computer and promise to do better.
I'm using emotionally charged language because these are supposed to be emotional topics. "Critical thinking" on its own is just a pathway to justifying extreme inhumane cruelty.
> bombing hospitals and bombing aid workers
Yes on aid workers. The hospitals, unfortunately, appear to have been used for military purposes by Hamas. That makes them valid targets.
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“I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza Strip. There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed,” - Israel defence minister
Denial of aid. Collective punishment.
Also war crime.
> what specific rules of war do you believe have been broken?
Basically every single one. We will end much faster if you just read the laws.
And this is not "a belief" or a "lets debate for a year more if this is or not a genocide while sipping tea and killing faster". The ship of good faith has parted many months ago.
Your comment is a stellar example of the Bullshit Asymmetry Principle in action. You'd have us wade through untold reams of international law for specific references, a task that would likely take hours, just to rebut your glib denial of the current state of play. Oh well, I've got some time to kill...
Shit That Should Land Israel's Government and Military Apparatus In The Hague, Abridged:
Per ICC Article 8: (https://www.icrc.org/en/doc/resources/documents/misc/5nsf46....)
- (i) Intentionally directing attacks against the civilian population as such or against individual civilians not taking direct part in hostilities;
- (ii) Intentionally directing attacks against civilian objects, that is, objects which are not military objectives;
- (iv) Intentionally launching an attack in the knowledge that such attack will cause incidental loss of life or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects or widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment which would be clearly excessive in relation to the concrete and direct overall military advantage anticipated;
- (v) Attacking or bombarding, by whatever means, towns, villages, dwellings or buildings which are undefended and which are not military objectives;
World Bank report on destroyed civilian infrastructure: https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2024/04/02/j...
- (iii) Intentionally directing attacks against personnel, installations, material, units or vehicles involved in a humanitarian assistance or peacekeeping mission in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations, as long as they are entitled to the protection given to civilians or civilian objects under the international law of armed conflict;
The Israeli army has a storied history of bombing the shit out of aid workers that goes back decades, everything from shelling UN aid warehouses with white phosphorous munitions to calling in artillery strikes on aid convoys. This behavior is well-documented and certainly not limited to the current conflict.
- (xxv) Intentionally using starvation of civilians as a method of warfare by depriving them of objects indispensable to their survival, including wilfully impeding relief supplies as provided for under the Geneva Conventions;
Do we really need to review the current state of play with relief aid in Gaza given it hasn't been 5 days since an Israeli patrol greased a convoy of aid workers? Shit's gotten so bad foreign governments have taken to air dropping aid.
Additionally as I'm sitting here combing through the Geneva Conventions there are a few things that stand out:
- Part I, Article 3, 2) seems to be in olay between shelling the fuck out of aid workers, bombing hospitals out of existence, and the several documented attacks on emergency response vehicles.
- Part II, Article 24 on child welfare also seems like an unambiguous faceplant given this: https://twitter.com/UNLazzarini/status/1767618985397272831?s...
I'm certain there's more here but you aren't getting more of my time than the initial hour I budgeted to the task of putting together this reply. Have fun with the supplemental reading...