Comment by refulgentis
2 years ago
It's reasonable to view Palestine as a nation and it's reasonable to look at what's going on and see forced starvation of a nation coupled to, as we are discussing here, cruelly relaxed standards for enemy combatants that make a mockery of international law and are de facto indiscriminate by any standard. Sneering about agendas is distasteful in this context. Vast majority of us aren't really keeping score or trying to advance anything at all, just horrified, as horrified as we were by 10/7, while 10% hurl insults at each other and lash out at anything anyone else says.
War is nasty. It won’t stop being
You mean the bombing of Gaza or the October attacks?
I see it as open season. One under resourced side wants a fight with a well resourced side. I don’t expect them to sing songs. I expect them to very violently kill each other till on one side goes, ‘we lost’.
The entire Palestinian war doctrine is built around attacking Israel, then running for cover of well intentioned Western public. Hamas just needs to survive this to declare victory, and then the clock resets until the next cycle of violence. Hamas assumes Israel will not be allowed to have a decisive win, one where its leadership down to its last junior operatives are hunted down and eliminated.
This method of elinination can only be carried out via a Holocaust. Killing half the 2M citizens won't eliminate Hamas it will recruit 3 generations as justified in their violence as Israel. The cost of their crimes will be paid by both sides grandchildren or we will witness a final slaughter of 2M people.
Sorry, but I don’t buy this. West Bank is both more peaceful and less radicalized than Gaza, the difference being that the Israeli military operates in the West Bank but not in Gaza. Gaza was left unchecked to be run by Hamas and we’re seeing the results today.
Long term the only solution is systematic deradicalization, but before any of that happens, Hamas needs to he destroyed and the war in Gaza needs to serve as a lesson to why peace is better than war. So far, for all Palestinian suffering, we’re not past that point.
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> The entire Palestinian war doctrine is built around attacking Israel ...
Let me correct that for you - The entire Palestinian resistance is built around the idea of fighting a foreign occupation of their land. Israel is a coloniser state, and the Palestinians are justified in fighting them, even violently, for their land and existence as many other colonial countries have in the past against their oppressors. The denial that some Israelis have about this is the height of political stupidity.
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
The problem with Israel is not PLA or Hamas, but the the right-wing religious fundamentalist Israeli-Jews that have captured power in Israel. Right-wing religious fundamentalists around the world thrive by creating a climate of fear and hate. Unless Israeli Jews and Palestinian muslims hate each other, they cannot be in power. And if you look at the history of the Israeli religious fundamentalist Jews, you will find that they have assassinated their own people, Palestinian politicians and ven foreign diplomats and leaders, to ensure that there is no peace and a climate of fear and hatred flourishes.
Why do you think Netanyahu and his predecessor formulated the policy of supporting and financing Hamas when the PLA started exploring diplomatic and non-violent means of peace, and gaining international support? The reality was that that these religious fundamentalist Israeli politicians need some religious fundamentalist violent Palestinian faction to brainwash and radicalise their followers to retain power. So they deliberately create conflict. The Likud party that Netanyahu now heads, was found by religious fundamentalists in Israel who were a jewish terrorist organisation that took please in killing and slaughtering Palestinina men, women and children. Albert Einstein once warned the Israel polity about the dangers of such people capturing power in Israel because of the atrocity them committed against Palestinians in the name of Israel.
It is not a co-incidence that Netanyahu and his other religious fundamentalist buddies allowed Hamas to attack Israel, when he and the right- in Israel are in a very politically precarious situation. The current war allows them to create hatred among the new generation of Israelis and Palestinians, so that they can cling on to power.
And what should the 12 million people living there now do?
Let us know how you'll handle them.
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Sounds like you’re endorsing violence, just upset that your side is losing.
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I'm trying to understand; it sounds like you feel that an AI selecting targets and letting some live is just as bad and indiscriminate as a group forming a charter that reads "exterminate all Jews." (Paraphrasing, but the meaning is not disputed.)
That's hard to agree with. I'd rather the group that tries to save some civilians over one that targets all civilians intentionally.
Wouldn't you?
That said, we can criticize. But we should do it constructively. Provide a better option, militarily, or otherwise. (I don't have one. And anyway I believe this article is baseless.)
Short of offering options, we're just picking sides, and to me it looks like you're picking the wrong one.
And, that is bias.
The criminal that hides under color of law while killing far more innocents is more odious on multiple fronts. Dead children and austere serious men walking through their blood reeking of offal and rightiousness is a disturbing contrast.
The US ought to disassociate ourselves forever from such undepentant criminals.
So the one that kills openly against the law prescribed by democracy is better? Do continue. The world is listening.
>ourselves
Please don't call yourself American. Your immorality is embarrassing me.
Israel: 10% acceptable civilian casualty as defense against Gaza. (An unsubstantiated claim without a source. But let's pretend it's true since that's what we're commenting on.)
Gaza: 100% intentional civilian casualty as defense... Uh wait, they weren't even defending anything. They were trying to uproot 12 million residents in a neighboring country. That is literally their stated goal.
How is the second one more moral? Don't bother answering because if you can explain that, you belong in prison, or you at least need a psych evaluation.
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